4 ms·

"When someone pays you minimum wage he is trying to say he would pay you less if it wasn't against the law." -- Chris Rock I agree, but it is hard for me to fi

"When someone pays you minimum wage he is trying to say he would pay you less if it wasn't against the law." -- Chris Rock I agree, but it is hard for me to find sympathy for businessmen who hold wages so low. This behavior is widespread in the restaurant business, and it isn't limited to the staff stealing from the restaurant.

WalterBright 13y ago
Sympathy has nothing to do with it. If you feel your wages are too low, negotiate for higher ones. If that doesn't work, accept it or quit. If you've been wronged, you have access to redress from the courts, and the courts are very sympathetic towards workers in disputes with employers.
- fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
  I said I agree with you. >If you feel your wages are too low, negotiate for higher ones. If that doesn't work, accept it or quit. I wish more people would do just that. It's what I did, after about a month of working as a barback. >If you've been wronged, you have access to redress from the courts, and the courts are very sympathetic towards workers in disputes with employers. No, you really don't, and the courts aren't. Where did you get that idea?
  - WalterBright 13y ago
    > Where did you get that idea? Details of cases I am familiar with, and talking with lawyer friends who tell me that, although it is not supposed to be that way, jurors and judges often give the benefit of any doubt to the perceived underdog. There's a reason why lawyers carefully dress their clients in certain ways, select jurors based on socioeconomic status, etc.
    - fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
      You think a person who makes minimum wage-ish + tips can hire one of your friends to sue their manager / boss / restaurant owner over wage / tip discrepancies? Do you think your coworkers who depend upon their waitstaff job to support their family / college education will agree to testify or be deposed in proceedings against their employer? Have you really thought about this?
      - WalterBright 13y ago
        http://dwd.wisconsin.gov/er/labor_standards_bureau/publication_erd_10721_p.htm http://dwd.wisconsin.gov/er/labor_standards_bureau/publicati... States all have their mechanisms where a worker can file a complaint without needing a lawyer.
        fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
        The person assigned to investigate a labor standards complaint will mail the employer a letter informing the employer of the complaint, who filed the complaint and what will happen next. Since unpaid wage complaints involving minimum wage or overtime issues may affect other current/former employees who are not listed in the complaint, the department may request the employer conduct a self-audit of its place of employment if the complaint before the department proves to be valid. Yes that sounds like a fantastically powerful tool for workers to wield against their employers. I bet it keeps everything above board. /sarcasm
      - jplewicke 13y ago
        A lot of employment lawyers will take cases on in exchange for a portion of the damages if you have a valid case. Almost every employment lawyer will listen to you enough to figure out if you might have a case.
- consonants 13y ago
  >If you feel your wages are too low, negotiate for higher ones. If that doesn't work, accept it or quit. Labor rights in this country are so laughable that this isn't a realistic an option. Any attempt towards that end such as simply unionizing has been eroded away by the law written to favor the owners of capital.
  - fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
    Exactly, it is especially bad when there are so many unemployed, making labor a buyer's market.
- aestra 13y ago
  This is funny. I worked close to minimum wage at a restaurant before. There was no wage negotiation. We had people coming in every single day looking for a job to work minimum wage. I would have been replaced in an hour, there was no leverage. What was I going to do?
  - WalterBright 13y ago
    Reading your post closely, I infer a couple of things. First off, you were being paid more than minimum wage, and could be replaced at an hour's notice with someone willing to work at minimum wage. So at some point you successfully demonstrated a higher value than those others, thereby getting a higher wage. Secondly, you are no longer there at that wage. So you did something to demonstrate even higher value and a higher paying job. My advice: do more of that, since it was working for you!
    - aestra 13y ago
      Minimum wage, as I recall (it was a long time ago) was around maybe $7 an hour, I was being paid around $7.80. Whooooooooo.... Yeah, the reason for that is because you get a nickel and dime raises when you learn a job. That is pretty much the highest any non-manager employee got in the restaurant. I was simply shocked as to how many people came in every day looking for an application. Every single day. It was amazing. These weren't teenagers either. Yeah, I'm not working in the restaurant business anymore because I'm a software engineer now. However, not everyone can become software engineers, and there is still a market for restaurants. I know I enjoy them myself. There is also a latency between age of employment and age that one usually acquires skills to be hired as a software engineer and not everyone has rich [read: middle class] parents to support them through that time. I also don't need your career advice. I would like to also point out I would never steal from my employer, or anyone else, it still goes against my morals.
      - WalterBright 13y ago
        > I also don't need your career advice. That's cool, but you asked and I answered, and I correctly inferred that you didn't need the advice. Glad to see you doing well, and Peace, dude! (I started out at min wage jobs, too.)

WalterBright 13y ago

Sympathy has nothing to do with it. If you feel your wages are too low, negotiate for higher ones. If that doesn't work, accept it or quit. If you've been wronged, you have access to redress from the courts, and the courts are very sympathetic towards workers in disputes with employers.

fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
I said I agree with you. >If you feel your wages are too low, negotiate for higher ones. If that doesn't work, accept it or quit. I wish more people would do just that. It's what I did, after about a month of working as a barback. >If you've been wronged, you have access to redress from the courts, and the courts are very sympathetic towards workers in disputes with employers. No, you really don't, and the courts aren't. Where did you get that idea?
- WalterBright 13y ago
  > Where did you get that idea? Details of cases I am familiar with, and talking with lawyer friends who tell me that, although it is not supposed to be that way, jurors and judges often give the benefit of any doubt to the perceived underdog. There's a reason why lawyers carefully dress their clients in certain ways, select jurors based on socioeconomic status, etc.
  - fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
    You think a person who makes minimum wage-ish + tips can hire one of your friends to sue their manager / boss / restaurant owner over wage / tip discrepancies? Do you think your coworkers who depend upon their waitstaff job to support their family / college education will agree to testify or be deposed in proceedings against their employer? Have you really thought about this?
    - WalterBright 13y ago
      http://dwd.wisconsin.gov/er/labor_standards_bureau/publication_erd_10721_p.htm http://dwd.wisconsin.gov/er/labor_standards_bureau/publicati... States all have their mechanisms where a worker can file a complaint without needing a lawyer.
      - fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
        The person assigned to investigate a labor standards complaint will mail the employer a letter informing the employer of the complaint, who filed the complaint and what will happen next. Since unpaid wage complaints involving minimum wage or overtime issues may affect other current/former employees who are not listed in the complaint, the department may request the employer conduct a self-audit of its place of employment if the complaint before the department proves to be valid. Yes that sounds like a fantastically powerful tool for workers to wield against their employers. I bet it keeps everything above board. /sarcasm
    - jplewicke 13y ago
      A lot of employment lawyers will take cases on in exchange for a portion of the damages if you have a valid case. Almost every employment lawyer will listen to you enough to figure out if you might have a case.
consonants 13y ago
>If you feel your wages are too low, negotiate for higher ones. If that doesn't work, accept it or quit. Labor rights in this country are so laughable that this isn't a realistic an option. Any attempt towards that end such as simply unionizing has been eroded away by the law written to favor the owners of capital.
- fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
  Exactly, it is especially bad when there are so many unemployed, making labor a buyer's market.
aestra 13y ago
This is funny. I worked close to minimum wage at a restaurant before. There was no wage negotiation. We had people coming in every single day looking for a job to work minimum wage. I would have been replaced in an hour, there was no leverage. What was I going to do?
- WalterBright 13y ago
  Reading your post closely, I infer a couple of things. First off, you were being paid more than minimum wage, and could be replaced at an hour's notice with someone willing to work at minimum wage. So at some point you successfully demonstrated a higher value than those others, thereby getting a higher wage. Secondly, you are no longer there at that wage. So you did something to demonstrate even higher value and a higher paying job. My advice: do more of that, since it was working for you!
  - aestra 13y ago
    Minimum wage, as I recall (it was a long time ago) was around maybe $7 an hour, I was being paid around $7.80. Whooooooooo.... Yeah, the reason for that is because you get a nickel and dime raises when you learn a job. That is pretty much the highest any non-manager employee got in the restaurant. I was simply shocked as to how many people came in every day looking for an application. Every single day. It was amazing. These weren't teenagers either. Yeah, I'm not working in the restaurant business anymore because I'm a software engineer now. However, not everyone can become software engineers, and there is still a market for restaurants. I know I enjoy them myself. There is also a latency between age of employment and age that one usually acquires skills to be hired as a software engineer and not everyone has rich [read: middle class] parents to support them through that time. I also don't need your career advice. I would like to also point out I would never steal from my employer, or anyone else, it still goes against my morals.
    - WalterBright 13y ago
      > I also don't need your career advice. That's cool, but you asked and I answered, and I correctly inferred that you didn't need the advice. Glad to see you doing well, and Peace, dude! (I started out at min wage jobs, too.)