4 ms·

You don't have to agree with it for it to be happening. Though, understanding that side of the argument can help solve the problem for both sides of the equatio

You don't have to agree with it for it to be happening. Though, understanding that side of the argument can help solve the problem for both sides of the equation.

WalterBright 13y ago
I understand it happens. I was disagreeing with the attempt at justifying it as acceptable behavior. The moral way to improve your pay is to find a way to make your labor worth more to the employer. For a restaurant worker, that could be things like finding ways to boost sales, reduce wastage, find less expensive vendors, improve efficiency, etc. It's highly unlikely that any restaurant has successfully optimized all aspects of their operations.
- saraid216 13y ago
  > For a restaurant worker, that could be things like finding ways to boost sales, reduce wastage, find less expensive vendors, improve efficiency, etc. It's highly unlikely that any restaurant has successfully optimized all aspects of their operations. What, for free? He isn't being paid to do that.
  - WalterBright 13y ago
    Perhaps you misunderstood that the point of it was to demonstrate your higher value and hence you were worth more pay. If you choose to do as little as possible, it does make for a tough negotiating position when asking for more pay. When I've gone into my boss's office and negotiated for more pay, I'd come in prepared to show how I'd already demonstrated higher value to the company. Sometimes I walked out with a raise, and other times I failed and started looking for another boss who did value what I could do for him.
    - fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
      Forgive me for making assumptions about you, but, you sound as though you have never even known anyone who worked this kind of job. What you're describing would likely earn you enmity or a very antagonistic working relationship with your coworkers.
      - WalterBright 13y ago
        I do understand that demonstrating higher value and then successfully negotiating for a raise can earn you the enmity of your coworkers. People are only human, after all. On the other hand, I knew coworkers who were thieves and justified it with their notions of entitlement. I didn't exactly feel inclined to trust them, either, and trust is a basic element of friendship. So I guess we all get to make our choices and accept the consequences.
        fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
        Nobody is trying to justify thievery and of course you shouldn't trust thieves. My point is that if you pay your workers the lowest possible wages, you shouldn't be surprised if quality suffers.
      - acheron 13y ago
        > What you're describing would likely earn you enmity or a very antagonistic working relationship with your coworkers. I.e., the old crabs in a bucket story. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality
        fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
        Thank you for that link, I had never heard it referred to as Crab Mentality. Note I wasn't describing my own life philosophy, but rather my observations.
  - gwright 13y ago
    Your comment suggests that you are analyzing the situtation as a static configuration rather than a dynamic system. From a static point of view where the job situtation will never change it doesn't make sense to put in an effort that exceeds the compensation but that 'solution' is certainly non-optimal from dynamic point of view where the employment contract gets continually revised over time resulting in raises, promotions or perhaps shifting to a new employer where your experience and skills result in a better employment situation.

You don't have to agree with it for it to be happening. Though, understanding that side of the argument can help solve the problem for both sides of the equation.

WalterBright 13y ago

I understand it happens. I was disagreeing with the attempt at justifying it as acceptable behavior. The moral way to improve your pay is to find a way to make your labor worth more to the employer. For a restaurant worker, that could be things like finding ways to boost sales, reduce wastage, find less expensive vendors, improve efficiency, etc. It's highly unlikely that any restaurant has successfully optimized all aspects of their operations.

saraid216 13y ago
> For a restaurant worker, that could be things like finding ways to boost sales, reduce wastage, find less expensive vendors, improve efficiency, etc. It's highly unlikely that any restaurant has successfully optimized all aspects of their operations. What, for free? He isn't being paid to do that.
- WalterBright 13y ago
  Perhaps you misunderstood that the point of it was to demonstrate your higher value and hence you were worth more pay. If you choose to do as little as possible, it does make for a tough negotiating position when asking for more pay. When I've gone into my boss's office and negotiated for more pay, I'd come in prepared to show how I'd already demonstrated higher value to the company. Sometimes I walked out with a raise, and other times I failed and started looking for another boss who did value what I could do for him.
  - fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
    Forgive me for making assumptions about you, but, you sound as though you have never even known anyone who worked this kind of job. What you're describing would likely earn you enmity or a very antagonistic working relationship with your coworkers.
    - WalterBright 13y ago
      I do understand that demonstrating higher value and then successfully negotiating for a raise can earn you the enmity of your coworkers. People are only human, after all. On the other hand, I knew coworkers who were thieves and justified it with their notions of entitlement. I didn't exactly feel inclined to trust them, either, and trust is a basic element of friendship. So I guess we all get to make our choices and accept the consequences.
      - fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
        Nobody is trying to justify thievery and of course you shouldn't trust thieves. My point is that if you pay your workers the lowest possible wages, you shouldn't be surprised if quality suffers.
    - acheron 13y ago
      > What you're describing would likely earn you enmity or a very antagonistic working relationship with your coworkers. I.e., the old crabs in a bucket story. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality
      - fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
        Thank you for that link, I had never heard it referred to as Crab Mentality. Note I wasn't describing my own life philosophy, but rather my observations.
- gwright 13y ago
  Your comment suggests that you are analyzing the situtation as a static configuration rather than a dynamic system. From a static point of view where the job situtation will never change it doesn't make sense to put in an effort that exceeds the compensation but that 'solution' is certainly non-optimal from dynamic point of view where the employment contract gets continually revised over time resulting in raises, promotions or perhaps shifting to a new employer where your experience and skills result in a better employment situation.