9 ms·

How to save Windows Surface?

20 points by squeakynick 13y ago

Toshio 13y ago
microsoft should understand that mobile is a battle they can never win, they should count their blessings and focus entirely on the enterprise side of their business.
- jiggy2011 13y ago
  To a large extent Microsoft's success is based on have similar technology (or at least similar looking technology) at both the consumer and enterprise level. Kids growing up using Windows to play games and browse the internet will find it a very smooth transition to using a Windows PC at work or learning to configure a Windows Server.
- lnanek2 13y ago
  Sometimes you don't need to win to make a profit, however. MS does have a huge enterprise business. Now what happens when an enterprise that uses MS computers everywhere, MS servers, MS exchange, etc. wants to add tablets? They are far more likely to chose an MS tablet because they are already running all the MS kit anyway and have all their software and support staff targeted at that. MS even puts forth the non-RT version so the tablet can replace the PC if needed. There are companies with millions of dollars sunk into desktop PC software. So even if MS never wins in the consumer market and always just runs second third or fourth, having their own in house solution could still be cost effective.
  - throwaway2048 13y ago
    The thing is Win RT it's not anything like previous versions of Windows, both from a user interface standpoint and from API/ABI compatibility standpoint. it does not support Active Directory, fullnExchange or most other Microsoft enterprise integration tech. There is no compelling reason for a corporation to go with surface. Bizarrely iOS and Android both have better Microsoft stack integration.
    - mixmastamyk 13y ago
      Remember that it is version 1.0 right now, and MS has a good (not perfect) track record of follow-thru.
- MichaelGG 13y ago
  Not that this is unassailable reason, but I've heard people say the exact same thing about Microsoft in 1999. "Palm's so far ahead of them, etc. etc." - a few years later, Palm was shipping Windows. Microsoft's fundamentals on Windows 8 mobile are quite solid. Even the design aspect ("pure digital") is something that both Android and iOS are moving to in some form. It's true that WP7/Win8 haven't launched as well as they'd hoped, but calling it over seems rather premature.
  - Shamanmuni 13y ago
    It's true what you say, but we have a different world nowadays. In 1999 Microsoft was the undisputable world champion in IT, they were the only ones who had deep pockets, lots of users and a tremendous software ecosystem. Now we have both Google and Apple with deep pockets, lots of users and software in their stores. Google is even playing the Microsoft card, developing a desirable OS for the hardware manufacturers to use in their devices. And the hardware manufacturers are delighted because not only it's free, but they also can have their own app stores and add value to differentiate themselves from the competition (look at Samsung with the Galaxy devices). It must be a hard sell to convince these guys to return to Microsoft, be just another "Windows devices + crapware" manufacturer and stay away from the profits of purchased apps. On the other hand, the much touted inertia towards Microsoft products has been debunked, I think. Many people seem quite happy and productive with iWork or QuickOffice on their devices. And that cannot be overstated, once you see that in the end you could do work without Microsoft Office, it's really hard to put the genie back in the bottle. The other part was games, and you can find plenty of them both in iOS or Android. So, not impossible, but it's clear that this time it will be very difficult for Microsoft to be topdog in mobile. They are late and struggling.
matt__rose 13y ago
RIM tried the same thing with the Playbook... We all know how well that worked
- hga 13y ago
  RIM shipped it without supplying native email or a calendar, you were supposed to use your normally Blackberry to supply those to it. Hard to imagine it being successful without such basic functionality, let alone it not being what you'd expect from RIM, it caused more than a little brand damage.
mkenyon 13y ago
Microsoft does this. I have helped port a few apps that are popular on other platforms. The incentive for the company was, in fact, quite sizable.
- trimbo 13y ago
  Yes, they do. I've worked at two companies where they've offered to pay for development and/or help with the ports themselves. (EDIT: for Windows Phone, though)
- msh 13y ago
  We they even gave me a free phone to port over a small hobby ios app. The phone is fine but it smells like desperation.
- hrvbr 13y ago
  To have the honor to be a developer on their platforms, we have to pay Microsoft 49€ per year for Windows and 99€ per year for Windows Phone. That's the opposite of a bounty.
theg2 13y ago
I want a surface, but everytime I get close to buying I do the same thing every time I consider buying a tablet, realize I have a laptop. Android, iOS, Surface, doesn't matter, they're all a luxury for people who already own a laptop or smartphone. Doesn't help that I already have a WP8 phone.
- mixmastamyk 13y ago
  They're nice when you are on the couch or lounging in bed... at a coffee shop. And they're cheap. I use mine mostly for netflix. Got rid of the TV and cable, so it has actually saved me money. Unless you are struggling, I would say give it a try. The Nexus 7 is a good low-cost choice if you are unsure, and you could trade up later if you decide you need more power.
  - lurkinggrue 13y ago
    I guess the reason I don't find surface interesting is I don't use a computer on the couch or go to coffee shops. I do watch my TV close to a full on desktop computer and my Galaxy Note II takes care of everything else including bathroom computing.
    - mixmastamyk 13y ago
      A Note is a tablet for all intents...
- fumar 13y ago
  I agree with you, if you already have a laptop, then another device can be a luxury. I purchased a Surface Pro about three weeks ago, my 2005 Macbook died. I had been using my girlfriend's Surface RT for work, and that sufficed for three months. But, I missed running Adobe CS, and it wasn't my machine. After ten years of using OSX I turned to Windows. The Pro has tackled all the tasks, I've thrown at it so far. For example, I recently worked on a case study for a startup I work with. That meant writing, doing interviews, researching, and some graphic design. A good amount of work was done in Google Docs. But, the rest of my work flow lived in OneNote, Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop. At one point I had Illustrator, Photoshop, Chrome, Metro IE, and Xbox Music running, without any hiccups. This was all while sitting at 1871, a collaborative workspace in Chicago. A laptop can handle this right? Yeah. But, the Surface is a tablet, that costs 799-899 dollars. Before, I purchased the Pro, I was looking at getting a Macbook Air or a Macbook Pro. The Macbook Pro was out of my price range, and the Air was a close competitor. I mention cost to make a point on the price to value ratio for this machine. The Surface is the sum of its parts. It has a high DPI screen, headphone jack, a digitizer, a kickstand, a USB port, MircoSD card slot, and a mini DVI port. At home it sits alongside a monitor, acting like a desktop. The Surface Pro, has quickly become one of my favorite pieces of technology, in a long time. The battery life could be better, and not every piece of software is optimized to work well on the screen. But, overall, its a dream to use on a daily basis. In my head this is what a tablet should be. Maybe, it was the idea of the iPad, I wished existed, before it was officially announced. Before, Steve Jobs, unveiled a 10 inch tablet that ran iOS not OSX. PS. After using both Surfaces for a while now, I came to realization that there should be more than one type of input for devices. We have an iMac at home, I have to make an effort to not touch the screen!
DennisP 13y ago
A related but better idea is what Amazon did: create a digital currency and give it to users to buy apps with. App sellers redeem the digital money for real money from Microsoft. Now you're still subsidizing apps but real users decide where the money goes.
kolinko 13y ago
In my opinion giving bounties to developers is a flawed idea. Devs may be motivated to do an app, but if the userbase is small, they will simply cut corners, and do the bare minimum, forgetting about support and further development after the bounty was acquired. In other words - if there are no users, a bounty will not convince devs to build a reasonable product, as there will be no incentive to do so. If there are users within the ecosystem, then the bounty is unnecessary. That is why so far the bounty programs did little to improve the ecosystems. A nice idea someone posted here in the comments - instead of giving devs bounty money, Microsoft could give free cash to users left & right, so they'd spend it on the apps. This would force the devs to not only do an app, but do a really good app...
- iamshs 13y ago
  I like your idea, and I think it should be a bit of column A and column B. Kickstart the platform from both ends, users and developers and then let the momentum ride itself from then on.
- r00fus 13y ago
  Alternatively, create startups using a fund (I know that Google and Apple have both done this - but only really could find the iFund [1] ) Benefits: * Not free cash * Startups own their product, but are forced to develop for your platform * Multiplies the amount of money * Allows some form of control through stock ownership * Can pay for itself if the platform is successful. Cons: * Requires more overhead * Fund management needs to be trusted * Startups thus created could "branch out" of your platform, thus creating competition (see. Spotify - now competes with iTunes). Personally, I see most of the negatives as "good problems to have", esp. when you're about 3+ years behind existing (and rapidly growing) platforms (in the case of Apple, that was vs. Windows/Web and in the case of Microsoft, it would be iOS/Android). [1] http://www.kpcb.com/initiatives/ifund/ http://www.kpcb.com/initiatives/ifund/
drewying 13y ago
As other users have pointed out, Microsoft actually does a lot of this. If you have a successful app MS will pay you handsomely to port it over. Honest, the Surface's problem is more perception than anything
- squeakynick 13y ago
  How handsomely? Will anyone step up and say? If this is happening, what is the going rate? If you were offered, but did not accept, what value would have changed your mind? (Everyone has a price) Are there really people out there that turned down half a million, a million, five million dollars? Are there smaller companies who would turn down 250K or 100k?
faddotio 13y ago
Blackberry paid bounties for every app developed in their store, and they got what they paid for - developers repackaged worthless content like wallpapers in the form of "apps" and listed them in the thousands. They made a killing. I don't think RIM really cared one way or the other, because they were looking to plump up that meaningless statistic that the press bandies around. Look, we have M apps in N months, check dat growth!
venomsnake 13y ago
Or you know - a better solution - allow recompiled programs to be run on the desktop and allow sideloading of metro applications. The surfaces will disappear in a matter of days.
- iamshs 13y ago
  You are talking about Surface RT. Side loading will allow the present troves of ransomware and nasty toolbars to run amok on the Start Screen. And just allowing sideloading will not generate considerable interest among masses, to be frank.
  - venomsnake 13y ago
    No it won't ... it is very easy to add additional to MS key to allow singing of code. Sideloading will create interest in geeks and developers. And in some businesses. Anyway this is very cheap experiment to make ... the tablets are written off and it requires a simple patch.
    - iamshs 13y ago
      Enterprises have their own separate store and the Enterprise Surface RTs allow sideloading [1]. And I think XDA developers already have a jailbreak tool and can compile desktop applications on RT [2,3]. [1]- http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/jj874388.aspx http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/jj874388.aspx [2]- http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2092158 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2092158 [3] - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2092348 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2092348
- r00fus 13y ago
  They're too afraid to cannibalize their existing laptop sales, but also not competent enough to jump both-feet-in like Apple. One part of the company wants Surface to succeed, another is deathly afraid of such success, while knowing that the ground is eroding beneath their feet. Thanks to the torture that is stacked ranking, these two groups are very invested to fighting each other rather than the company's competitors.
radicalbyte 13y ago
No, that's not the problem. The problem is that they've now got three operating systems: a phone OS, a tablet OS and a productivity OS. They should have stuck to two. The Surface RT should have been a branded as Metro (along with WP!). The OS should have been licensed at a low cost (not the $80 Windows fee). It should have cost $400 at release, with the cover keyboard. The Surface PRO should be an Air++ - the logical evolution of the Air concept. A small, light but fully featured computer. Only they could have made it smarter. Sell it with a hub which connects the Surface to monitors + KB/mouse whilst home. Make that switch to desktop mode automatically (with an override button, aka the orientation switch on the iPad). PCs: the whole Metrofication of Windows 8 stinks of arrogance and head-up-ass syndrome. Yes, offer it as an option. Yes, bring the visual style to all of your tooling (it's pretty!). But no, don't do it in a way that makes working with a keyboard/mouse painful, breaks multi-screen support, breaks a whole host of games and only works to annoy your customers. Instead, offer it as an option: if the user has a touchscreen installed, ask them what they prefer. Make it easy to switch. Heck, switch automatically (like what I suggested with the Surface Pro). Heck, open that up via APIs, and let smart companies do cool stuff with it. Instead we have someone senior at Microsoft trying to turn himself into Steve Jobs by copying his negative traits - stubbornness and ego - without having the brilliant vision and marketing ability to make it actually, you know, work.
- MichaelGG 13y ago
  The Metrofication of Windows 8 hasn't even been extended to other programs. The whole ALL CAPS nonsense that VS and Office embraced isn't found in Windows 8. (Not to mention, it seems haphazardly applied in VS/Office; some things are caps, others aren't. There's no rhyme or reason that I've discovered as a user.)
  - Livven 13y ago
    Windows Phone does use all caps titles, though in a more subtle way. In general Windows Phone, Windows 8 and Office 2013/VS 2012 all seem to interpret Metro in a different way, with a surprising amount of inconsistency between WP/W8.
simonh 13y ago
Paying developers to write apps only gets you so far, and anyway Microsoft is already doing it. The main problem right now is they don't have Metro app versions of their own flagship products. When the iPad launched, it launched with Garageband, Pages, Keynote and Numbers in the App Store and ready to go (maybe a few weeks wait for some of them). Windows 8 was rushed and botched, plain and simple. There's just no excuse for launching without at least a plurality of native Metro versions of their flagship apps. You just can't expect third party developers to help float a platform if you don't bootstrap the ecosystem with apps yourself. This has been a problem for Android on tablets as well as Google only provides phone type apps. Relying on third parties means there's a long lag between platform launch and decent app support, and that gap is filled with the sound of crickets chirping and tumbleweeds blowing through your app store. Not a good way to encourage user adoption. Having said that, from everything I hear the Surface Pro 128 is a great machine. If I hadn't bought into Mac/iOS 6 years ago I'd be tempted.
johnchristopher 13y ago
Oh, I know what they should do with Surface ! I mean... I know what I wish they would do with Surface: - Produce a surface pro with 13" mate screen ; - 128gb ssd at least of whatever performance (upgradeable) ; - 4GB of RAM (not soldered, upgradeable) ; - keep the same vapor-mag chassis ; - 1xHDMI, at least 2xUSB (at least one 3.0), 1xVGA for every situation, 1xEthernet, 1xSD reader ; - an apple track-pad. Yes, they should buy the license. Stop messing with random knockoffs of lesser quality ; - no weird 1080p screen on a 13" inch screen. hd+ is fine ; - a quiet CPU (quiet > power) with IGP. For the magical price tag of 1000€, VAT included. And how they should promote it: - Refresh the line every year or something ; - don't talk every day about it for 10 months before the next refresh hits the drawing table ; - talk about it the day before it's available on-line and at retail store ; - produce one or two versions (10 or 11 and 13 inches) and let people upgrade it the way they see fit. Basically be an alternative to Apple. Of course, I am only looking at it through the laptop angle. Not a care for those tablets. They are sitting on enough cash to try this for 3 years. Play it on the high quality of build and a decent price tag and see what happens.
- iamshs 13y ago
  And make it available in as many countries outside NA. I would also like: - LTE, - GPS, - a good Lumia 1020-esqe camera, - Thunderbolt port. Basically, a state-of-the-art machine (Not that above technology makes it really state-of-the-art). This is MS Research's time to shine.
  - johnchristopher 13y ago
    Sorry, in my opinion only the thunderbolt port might be added (I don't see a lot of use for it yet though). Other features are tablet/smartphones stuff I don't need to run my computer. Those belongs in a phone/tablet and would only increase the laptop price substantially for a minority of consumer. Let's keep it simple and obvious. Though there could be some kind of external minimal (in style and in packaging) pci-express add-ons to support GPS, better camera, etc. MS should make money on those.
- MichaelGG 13y ago
sksksk 13y ago
They have tried this, I used to work for a company that makes an app for Android and iPhone. The app isn't great in itself, but it's part of a bigger service, and was even featured in an iPhone ad at one point. Microsoft said that they'd pay $100,000 towards an app for WP7 but we said no. It sounds like a great deal, but the problem is that making the app is just the first part. You're now on the hook for maintaining the app, providing customer support, fixing bugs, adding new features etc... If MS provided a guarantee that they'd pay for the ongoing support costs, that'd be one thing, but I'd imagine that would get very expensive very quickly.
- harrytuttle 13y ago
  Depends what the app is. We were asked to take part in such an offering for our portal but we declined as there is little point in making an app when you already have a working mobile site that is tested on the platform in question. Whilst I really like WP, this is not the way to promote your platform.
ZanyProgrammer 13y ago
Both Surface tablets should've had the cover included from the start, and honestly the prices should be, oh, $100.00 lower than they are now. The Surfaces remind me of those 2011 era Android tablets running 3.x-decent specs, but poor apps, poor user experience, the same price or more expensive than the iPad, and were usually vaporware (or one small step up from that). MSFT is in the position Android was back then, the big difference being obviously that Android has moved ahead.
od2m 13y ago
The design of this site is intolerable.

20 points by squeakynick 13y ago

microsoft should understand that mobile is a battle they can never win, they should count their blessings and focus entirely on the enterprise side of their business.

jiggy2011 13y ago
To a large extent Microsoft's success is based on have similar technology (or at least similar looking technology) at both the consumer and enterprise level. Kids growing up using Windows to play games and browse the internet will find it a very smooth transition to using a Windows PC at work or learning to configure a Windows Server.
lnanek2 13y ago
Sometimes you don't need to win to make a profit, however. MS does have a huge enterprise business. Now what happens when an enterprise that uses MS computers everywhere, MS servers, MS exchange, etc. wants to add tablets? They are far more likely to chose an MS tablet because they are already running all the MS kit anyway and have all their software and support staff targeted at that. MS even puts forth the non-RT version so the tablet can replace the PC if needed. There are companies with millions of dollars sunk into desktop PC software. So even if MS never wins in the consumer market and always just runs second third or fourth, having their own in house solution could still be cost effective.
- throwaway2048 13y ago
  The thing is Win RT it's not anything like previous versions of Windows, both from a user interface standpoint and from API/ABI compatibility standpoint. it does not support Active Directory, fullnExchange or most other Microsoft enterprise integration tech. There is no compelling reason for a corporation to go with surface. Bizarrely iOS and Android both have better Microsoft stack integration.
  - mixmastamyk 13y ago
    Remember that it is version 1.0 right now, and MS has a good (not perfect) track record of follow-thru.
MichaelGG 13y ago
Not that this is unassailable reason, but I've heard people say the exact same thing about Microsoft in 1999. "Palm's so far ahead of them, etc. etc." - a few years later, Palm was shipping Windows. Microsoft's fundamentals on Windows 8 mobile are quite solid. Even the design aspect ("pure digital") is something that both Android and iOS are moving to in some form. It's true that WP7/Win8 haven't launched as well as they'd hoped, but calling it over seems rather premature.
- Shamanmuni 13y ago
  It's true what you say, but we have a different world nowadays. In 1999 Microsoft was the undisputable world champion in IT, they were the only ones who had deep pockets, lots of users and a tremendous software ecosystem. Now we have both Google and Apple with deep pockets, lots of users and software in their stores. Google is even playing the Microsoft card, developing a desirable OS for the hardware manufacturers to use in their devices. And the hardware manufacturers are delighted because not only it's free, but they also can have their own app stores and add value to differentiate themselves from the competition (look at Samsung with the Galaxy devices). It must be a hard sell to convince these guys to return to Microsoft, be just another "Windows devices + crapware" manufacturer and stay away from the profits of purchased apps. On the other hand, the much touted inertia towards Microsoft products has been debunked, I think. Many people seem quite happy and productive with iWork or QuickOffice on their devices. And that cannot be overstated, once you see that in the end you could do work without Microsoft Office, it's really hard to put the genie back in the bottle. The other part was games, and you can find plenty of them both in iOS or Android. So, not impossible, but it's clear that this time it will be very difficult for Microsoft to be topdog in mobile. They are late and struggling.

matt__rose 13y ago

RIM tried the same thing with the Playbook... We all know how well that worked

hga 13y ago
RIM shipped it without supplying native email or a calendar, you were supposed to use your normally Blackberry to supply those to it. Hard to imagine it being successful without such basic functionality, let alone it not being what you'd expect from RIM, it caused more than a little brand damage.

mkenyon 13y ago

Microsoft does this. I have helped port a few apps that are popular on other platforms. The incentive for the company was, in fact, quite sizable.

trimbo 13y ago
Yes, they do. I've worked at two companies where they've offered to pay for development and/or help with the ports themselves. (EDIT: for Windows Phone, though)
msh 13y ago
We they even gave me a free phone to port over a small hobby ios app. The phone is fine but it smells like desperation.
hrvbr 13y ago
To have the honor to be a developer on their platforms, we have to pay Microsoft 49€ per year for Windows and 99€ per year for Windows Phone. That's the opposite of a bounty.

theg2 13y ago

I want a surface, but everytime I get close to buying I do the same thing every time I consider buying a tablet, realize I have a laptop. Android, iOS, Surface, doesn't matter, they're all a luxury for people who already own a laptop or smartphone. Doesn't help that I already have a WP8 phone.

mixmastamyk 13y ago
They're nice when you are on the couch or lounging in bed... at a coffee shop. And they're cheap. I use mine mostly for netflix. Got rid of the TV and cable, so it has actually saved me money. Unless you are struggling, I would say give it a try. The Nexus 7 is a good low-cost choice if you are unsure, and you could trade up later if you decide you need more power.
- lurkinggrue 13y ago
  I guess the reason I don't find surface interesting is I don't use a computer on the couch or go to coffee shops. I do watch my TV close to a full on desktop computer and my Galaxy Note II takes care of everything else including bathroom computing.
  - mixmastamyk 13y ago
    A Note is a tablet for all intents...
fumar 13y ago
I agree with you, if you already have a laptop, then another device can be a luxury. I purchased a Surface Pro about three weeks ago, my 2005 Macbook died. I had been using my girlfriend's Surface RT for work, and that sufficed for three months. But, I missed running Adobe CS, and it wasn't my machine. After ten years of using OSX I turned to Windows. The Pro has tackled all the tasks, I've thrown at it so far. For example, I recently worked on a case study for a startup I work with. That meant writing, doing interviews, researching, and some graphic design. A good amount of work was done in Google Docs. But, the rest of my work flow lived in OneNote, Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop. At one point I had Illustrator, Photoshop, Chrome, Metro IE, and Xbox Music running, without any hiccups. This was all while sitting at 1871, a collaborative workspace in Chicago. A laptop can handle this right? Yeah. But, the Surface is a tablet, that costs 799-899 dollars. Before, I purchased the Pro, I was looking at getting a Macbook Air or a Macbook Pro. The Macbook Pro was out of my price range, and the Air was a close competitor. I mention cost to make a point on the price to value ratio for this machine. The Surface is the sum of its parts. It has a high DPI screen, headphone jack, a digitizer, a kickstand, a USB port, MircoSD card slot, and a mini DVI port. At home it sits alongside a monitor, acting like a desktop. The Surface Pro, has quickly become one of my favorite pieces of technology, in a long time. The battery life could be better, and not every piece of software is optimized to work well on the screen. But, overall, its a dream to use on a daily basis. In my head this is what a tablet should be. Maybe, it was the idea of the iPad, I wished existed, before it was officially announced. Before, Steve Jobs, unveiled a 10 inch tablet that ran iOS not OSX. PS. After using both Surfaces for a while now, I came to realization that there should be more than one type of input for devices. We have an iMac at home, I have to make an effort to not touch the screen!

DennisP 13y ago

A related but better idea is what Amazon did: create a digital currency and give it to users to buy apps with. App sellers redeem the digital money for real money from Microsoft. Now you're still subsidizing apps but real users decide where the money goes.

kolinko 13y ago

In my opinion giving bounties to developers is a flawed idea. Devs may be motivated to do an app, but if the userbase is small, they will simply cut corners, and do the bare minimum, forgetting about support and further development after the bounty was acquired. In other words - if there are no users, a bounty will not convince devs to build a reasonable product, as there will be no incentive to do so. If there are users within the ecosystem, then the bounty is unnecessary. That is why so far the bounty programs did little to improve the ecosystems. A nice idea someone posted here in the comments - instead of giving devs bounty money, Microsoft could give free cash to users left & right, so they'd spend it on the apps. This would force the devs to not only do an app, but do a really good app...

iamshs 13y ago
I like your idea, and I think it should be a bit of column A and column B. Kickstart the platform from both ends, users and developers and then let the momentum ride itself from then on.
r00fus 13y ago
Alternatively, create startups using a fund (I know that Google and Apple have both done this - but only really could find the iFund [1] ) Benefits: * Not free cash * Startups own their product, but are forced to develop for your platform * Multiplies the amount of money * Allows some form of control through stock ownership * Can pay for itself if the platform is successful. Cons: * Requires more overhead * Fund management needs to be trusted * Startups thus created could "branch out" of your platform, thus creating competition (see. Spotify - now competes with iTunes). Personally, I see most of the negatives as "good problems to have", esp. when you're about 3+ years behind existing (and rapidly growing) platforms (in the case of Apple, that was vs. Windows/Web and in the case of Microsoft, it would be iOS/Android). [1] http://www.kpcb.com/initiatives/ifund/ http://www.kpcb.com/initiatives/ifund/

drewying 13y ago

As other users have pointed out, Microsoft actually does a lot of this. If you have a successful app MS will pay you handsomely to port it over. Honest, the Surface's problem is more perception than anything

squeakynick 13y ago
How handsomely? Will anyone step up and say? If this is happening, what is the going rate? If you were offered, but did not accept, what value would have changed your mind? (Everyone has a price) Are there really people out there that turned down half a million, a million, five million dollars? Are there smaller companies who would turn down 250K or 100k?

faddotio 13y ago

Blackberry paid bounties for every app developed in their store, and they got what they paid for - developers repackaged worthless content like wallpapers in the form of "apps" and listed them in the thousands. They made a killing. I don't think RIM really cared one way or the other, because they were looking to plump up that meaningless statistic that the press bandies around. Look, we have M apps in N months, check dat growth!

venomsnake 13y ago

Or you know - a better solution - allow recompiled programs to be run on the desktop and allow sideloading of metro applications. The surfaces will disappear in a matter of days.

iamshs 13y ago
You are talking about Surface RT. Side loading will allow the present troves of ransomware and nasty toolbars to run amok on the Start Screen. And just allowing sideloading will not generate considerable interest among masses, to be frank.
- venomsnake 13y ago
  No it won't ... it is very easy to add additional to MS key to allow singing of code. Sideloading will create interest in geeks and developers. And in some businesses. Anyway this is very cheap experiment to make ... the tablets are written off and it requires a simple patch.
  - iamshs 13y ago
    Enterprises have their own separate store and the Enterprise Surface RTs allow sideloading [1]. And I think XDA developers already have a jailbreak tool and can compile desktop applications on RT [2,3]. [1]- http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/jj874388.aspx http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/jj874388.aspx [2]- http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2092158 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2092158 [3] - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2092348 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2092348
r00fus 13y ago
They're too afraid to cannibalize their existing laptop sales, but also not competent enough to jump both-feet-in like Apple. One part of the company wants Surface to succeed, another is deathly afraid of such success, while knowing that the ground is eroding beneath their feet. Thanks to the torture that is stacked ranking, these two groups are very invested to fighting each other rather than the company's competitors.

radicalbyte 13y ago

No, that's not the problem. The problem is that they've now got three operating systems: a phone OS, a tablet OS and a productivity OS. They should have stuck to two. The Surface RT should have been a branded as Metro (along with WP!). The OS should have been licensed at a low cost (not the $80 Windows fee). It should have cost $400 at release, with the cover keyboard. The Surface PRO should be an Air++ - the logical evolution of the Air concept. A small, light but fully featured computer. Only they could have made it smarter. Sell it with a hub which connects the Surface to monitors + KB/mouse whilst home. Make that switch to desktop mode automatically (with an override button, aka the orientation switch on the iPad). PCs: the whole Metrofication of Windows 8 stinks of arrogance and head-up-ass syndrome. Yes, offer it as an option. Yes, bring the visual style to all of your tooling (it's pretty!). But no, don't do it in a way that makes working with a keyboard/mouse painful, breaks multi-screen support, breaks a whole host of games and only works to annoy your customers. Instead, offer it as an option: if the user has a touchscreen installed, ask them what they prefer. Make it easy to switch. Heck, switch automatically (like what I suggested with the Surface Pro). Heck, open that up via APIs, and let smart companies do cool stuff with it. Instead we have someone senior at Microsoft trying to turn himself into Steve Jobs by copying his negative traits - stubbornness and ego - without having the brilliant vision and marketing ability to make it actually, you know, work.

MichaelGG 13y ago
The Metrofication of Windows 8 hasn't even been extended to other programs. The whole ALL CAPS nonsense that VS and Office embraced isn't found in Windows 8. (Not to mention, it seems haphazardly applied in VS/Office; some things are caps, others aren't. There's no rhyme or reason that I've discovered as a user.)
- Livven 13y ago
  Windows Phone does use all caps titles, though in a more subtle way. In general Windows Phone, Windows 8 and Office 2013/VS 2012 all seem to interpret Metro in a different way, with a surprising amount of inconsistency between WP/W8.

simonh 13y ago

Paying developers to write apps only gets you so far, and anyway Microsoft is already doing it. The main problem right now is they don't have Metro app versions of their own flagship products. When the iPad launched, it launched with Garageband, Pages, Keynote and Numbers in the App Store and ready to go (maybe a few weeks wait for some of them). Windows 8 was rushed and botched, plain and simple. There's just no excuse for launching without at least a plurality of native Metro versions of their flagship apps. You just can't expect third party developers to help float a platform if you don't bootstrap the ecosystem with apps yourself. This has been a problem for Android on tablets as well as Google only provides phone type apps. Relying on third parties means there's a long lag between platform launch and decent app support, and that gap is filled with the sound of crickets chirping and tumbleweeds blowing through your app store. Not a good way to encourage user adoption. Having said that, from everything I hear the Surface Pro 128 is a great machine. If I hadn't bought into Mac/iOS 6 years ago I'd be tempted.

johnchristopher 13y ago

Oh, I know what they should do with Surface ! I mean... I know what I wish they would do with Surface: - Produce a surface pro with 13" mate screen ; - 128gb ssd at least of whatever performance (upgradeable) ; - 4GB of RAM (not soldered, upgradeable) ; - keep the same vapor-mag chassis ; - 1xHDMI, at least 2xUSB (at least one 3.0), 1xVGA for every situation, 1xEthernet, 1xSD reader ; - an apple track-pad. Yes, they should buy the license. Stop messing with random knockoffs of lesser quality ; - no weird 1080p screen on a 13" inch screen. hd+ is fine ; - a quiet CPU (quiet > power) with IGP. For the magical price tag of 1000€, VAT included. And how they should promote it: - Refresh the line every year or something ; - don't talk every day about it for 10 months before the next refresh hits the drawing table ; - talk about it the day before it's available on-line and at retail store ; - produce one or two versions (10 or 11 and 13 inches) and let people upgrade it the way they see fit. Basically be an alternative to Apple. Of course, I am only looking at it through the laptop angle. Not a care for those tablets. They are sitting on enough cash to try this for 3 years. Play it on the high quality of build and a decent price tag and see what happens.

iamshs 13y ago
And make it available in as many countries outside NA. I would also like: - LTE, - GPS, - a good Lumia 1020-esqe camera, - Thunderbolt port. Basically, a state-of-the-art machine (Not that above technology makes it really state-of-the-art). This is MS Research's time to shine.
- johnchristopher 13y ago
  Sorry, in my opinion only the thunderbolt port might be added (I don't see a lot of use for it yet though). Other features are tablet/smartphones stuff I don't need to run my computer. Those belongs in a phone/tablet and would only increase the laptop price substantially for a minority of consumer. Let's keep it simple and obvious. Though there could be some kind of external minimal (in style and in packaging) pci-express add-ons to support GPS, better camera, etc. MS should make money on those.
MichaelGG 13y ago

sksksk 13y ago

They have tried this, I used to work for a company that makes an app for Android and iPhone. The app isn't great in itself, but it's part of a bigger service, and was even featured in an iPhone ad at one point. Microsoft said that they'd pay $100,000 towards an app for WP7 but we said no. It sounds like a great deal, but the problem is that making the app is just the first part. You're now on the hook for maintaining the app, providing customer support, fixing bugs, adding new features etc... If MS provided a guarantee that they'd pay for the ongoing support costs, that'd be one thing, but I'd imagine that would get very expensive very quickly.

harrytuttle 13y ago
Depends what the app is. We were asked to take part in such an offering for our portal but we declined as there is little point in making an app when you already have a working mobile site that is tested on the platform in question. Whilst I really like WP, this is not the way to promote your platform.

ZanyProgrammer 13y ago

Both Surface tablets should've had the cover included from the start, and honestly the prices should be, oh, $100.00 lower than they are now. The Surfaces remind me of those 2011 era Android tablets running 3.x-decent specs, but poor apps, poor user experience, the same price or more expensive than the iPad, and were usually vaporware (or one small step up from that). MSFT is in the position Android was back then, the big difference being obviously that Android has moved ahead.

od2m 13y ago

The design of this site is intolerable.