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> show me a Libertarian, and I'll show you someone with a sheltered upbringing Very well put. I think it applies to pretty much all neo-conservatives. Conserva

by skore 13y ago

> show me a Libertarian, and I'll show you someone with a sheltered upbringing Very well put. I think it applies to pretty much all neo-conservatives. Conservatism is about being rich and wanting stability to remain rich. Neo-conservatism is about wanting to be rich and stay rich because you never knew any other aspiration than wealth. (Funnily enough, this applies to both people born into wealth and poverty, with the first often selling this aspiration to the second, to their distinct disadvantage.) Similarly, Libertarians argue that everything will work out since it's all a level playing field from their perspective and everybody would have a good life if they just put effort in. They just never knew any other starting point to aspire from than their own.

gfodor 13y ago
And liberalism is about feeling guilty about your success when others suffer and trying to absolve for your sins by shaping the state in a way to redistribute wealth, regardless of how effective that might be in actually increasing economic mobility. Do you see how it's kind of dumb to make wide sweeping statements about political groups based upon basic strawman arguments?
- skore 13y ago
  No, actually, your depiction of liberalism is mostly accurate except for the motivation part. I don't think it's about absolving sins. I also don't think that economic mobility is the main objective. This again speaks to the unrecognized entitlement: When all you strive for is your own economic mobility, you project the same on poor folks. Most of the time, they would like to be on the scale of economic mobility to start off with, not advance on it. I pick my strawmen carefully.
  - gfodor 13y ago
    Can you elaborate on how exactly the use of the word "increasing" is some smoking gun for unrecognized entitlement? If I'm understanding your point it seems absolutely ridiculous. Obviously "increasing economic mobility" includes conceptually providing mobility to those who currently have no mobility at all.
Amadou 13y ago
> show me a Libertarian, and I'll show you someone with a sheltered upbringing For what it is worth... When I read that, I had a flashback to the first man I ever met who identified himself to me as a libertarian. I was probably about 13 years old and I didn't even know what a libertarian was. He was a middle-aged black man of average means who, I think, was born in Indiana and had ended up living in Pahoa, Hawaii (one of the cheaper places to live in the state). Ironically, his name was Obama Buckner (Obama was his first name, unlike the president). I googled him when the president won the election but he had died a couple of years prior. I wish I had thought to reconnect with him sooner because he was a big part of the local BBS scene, and made a major difference in my young life. I would really like to have talked to him now as an adult with more perspective on libertarianism so that I could understand what path led him to his beliefs.

by skore 13y ago

gfodor 13y ago

And liberalism is about feeling guilty about your success when others suffer and trying to absolve for your sins by shaping the state in a way to redistribute wealth, regardless of how effective that might be in actually increasing economic mobility. Do you see how it's kind of dumb to make wide sweeping statements about political groups based upon basic strawman arguments?

skore 13y ago
No, actually, your depiction of liberalism is mostly accurate except for the motivation part. I don't think it's about absolving sins. I also don't think that economic mobility is the main objective. This again speaks to the unrecognized entitlement: When all you strive for is your own economic mobility, you project the same on poor folks. Most of the time, they would like to be on the scale of economic mobility to start off with, not advance on it. I pick my strawmen carefully.
- gfodor 13y ago
  Can you elaborate on how exactly the use of the word "increasing" is some smoking gun for unrecognized entitlement? If I'm understanding your point it seems absolutely ridiculous. Obviously "increasing economic mobility" includes conceptually providing mobility to those who currently have no mobility at all.

Amadou 13y ago

> show me a Libertarian, and I'll show you someone with a sheltered upbringing For what it is worth... When I read that, I had a flashback to the first man I ever met who identified himself to me as a libertarian. I was probably about 13 years old and I didn't even know what a libertarian was. He was a middle-aged black man of average means who, I think, was born in Indiana and had ended up living in Pahoa, Hawaii (one of the cheaper places to live in the state). Ironically, his name was Obama Buckner (Obama was his first name, unlike the president). I googled him when the president won the election but he had died a couple of years prior. I wish I had thought to reconnect with him sooner because he was a big part of the local BBS scene, and made a major difference in my young life. I would really like to have talked to him now as an adult with more perspective on libertarianism so that I could understand what path led him to his beliefs.