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The language is intentionally emotional. Sweden didn't 'abduct' a child. If you want to believe Wikipedia [1] (since I'm not a lawyer and not even remotely sur

The language is intentionally emotional. Sweden didn't 'abduct' a child. If you want to believe Wikipedia [1] (since I'm not a lawyer and not even remotely sure about the specifics of the laws in question) the same thing could happen here in Germany. I doubt that is even close to the full story here, and a site that fights for homeschooling probably wants to push its own agenda first and foremost. This seems to be a tabloid headline, with biased/incomplete/weird content behind the link. 1: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schulpflicht_(Deutschland)#Vollzeitschulpflicht https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schulpflicht_(Deutschland)#Vol...

alipang 13y ago
I do find it disturbing that Sweden /requires/ you to send your kids to a government institute for hours each day to be educated. In practice, of course, free education is a great privilege for most families, but I fail how you a free society in congruent with this law. I'm Swedish, but have left the country. The quality of Swedish schools is less than outstanding imo.
- ars 13y ago
  > a government institute What about private schools?
- darklajid 13y ago
  I guess that's fine. You have always the option to leave a group of people/a society that has a different opinion. Germany requires the same (Homeschooling isn't allowed, except in very specific cases -> A child that cannot be transported/isn't mobile at all for example). For me that is The Right Way. The same education for everyone. If the public education sucks, we need to improve that not work around the issue. And .. the majority of reasons for homeschooling are plain invalid in my world (often based on religious ideas, claiming that the curriculum is containing 'forbidden'/'evil'/'wrong' stuff). 'Free society' doesn't imply the right to do everything. You cannot drink and drive. You're not allowed to beat your (very own, hey you made those!) children. For some, myself included, the requirement to send your kids to a 'real' school is a necessary thing and not Restricting The Freedom. You're free to disagree (both in Sweden and Germany), but in that case you need to decide if that freedom is important enough to warrant a move - or you can try to lobby against the majority/the status quo. Ignoring the state and law (as the family seemed to have done) or calling it wrong won't help.
  - greenyoda 13y ago
    "For me that is The Right Way. The same education for everyone." Aren't there private schools in Germany where the wealthy send their children? If there are, then why shouldn't everyone have the choice to opt out of the public school system, not just the wealthy?
    - sentenza 13y ago
      Accredited private schools that are staffed with teachers that went through the same educational path as the public school teachers. Not home schooling.
  - ars 13y ago
    > If the public education sucks What if group education is the problem? Parents being allowed to teach their children is a human right, and it's only very strange countries that block it. It smacks of government indoctrination. > And .. the majority of reasons for homeschooling are plain invalid in my world (often based on religious ideas, claiming that the curriculum is containing 'forbidden'/'evil'/'wrong' stuff). I guess the government indoctrination is working on you. (Did they run some propaganda ads to make you believe such a strange thing?) No, the reason most parents homeschool is that they can do a much better job, because you don't have to spend half of the day on useless structure and discipline. By doing that you free up so much time that kids can learn twice as much as non homeschooled kids. Or they can learn other subjects not normally taught, or they can explore their interests. It's not for all parents of course, it requires a good commitment. But homeschooled kids end up with much better educations that regular schooled ones. There have been many studies in the US on this subject and the results are very clear: Homeschooling works much better. > 'Free society' doesn't imply the right to do everything. For some, myself included, the requirement to send your kids to a 'real' school is a necessary thing and not Restricting The Freedom. Of course it is restricting. You have just been brainwashed. A society can make up any rules it likes, and I guess you'll go along with it. But you have to have a good reason for the rules. And there is no good reason at all for the ban on homeschooling.
    - darklajid 13y ago
- DanBC 13y ago
  Many (but not all!) people who homeschool do so because they wish to indoctrinate their children with weird beliefs or untruths, and because they want to prevent their children mixing with a diverse population. Neo nazis, radical extreme Muslims, Christians and Jews, Hippies - they all say very similar things for home schooling. This is the same kind of freedom that allows people to not vaccinate their children or to spend millions of dollars campaigning against Vapor Trails or Muslim-Sympathising-9/11-Commemorative-Sculptures or god only knows what other loony nonsense. Withdrawing your child from schools because schools are lousy is valid, but feels like a sad and selfish defeat. Why is education still run by people who ignore evidence? Why is education still in the grip of politicians?
  - tekalon 13y ago
    Ask most homeschooling American parents (which is becoming a big thing now) and they will not answer that. Many are since the school system is lacking (and fighting it takes as long as the child's education if not longer). Others are due to the child needing specialized care that the system does not/cannot provide, examples being that the student had ADD/ADHD, on the autism spectrum, is gifted and bored but the school has no advanced options. There are many online/mail schooling options that help parents with topics, but also open the parent to create their own lessons (going to museums, go to a hacker/maker group, travel etc) that might be more hands on. There are also many homeschool groups where parents rotate teaching and opens up for 'socialization' (for those that worry about that issue). I'm not disagreeing that there are groups that are extreme, there will always be, but assuming that the majority are extreme and want to 'indoctrinate' with 'weird' beliefs is rather uninformed.
  - ars 13y ago
    > because they want to prevent their children mixing with a diverse population. No, they just send their children to private school. > Neo nazis, radical extreme Muslims, Christians and Jews, Hippies - they all say very similar things for home schooling. No they don't. You have just been brainwashed by your government. You and darklajid both have very bizarre views about homeschooling - whoever is in charge of propaganda is clearly doing a good job, but he is not doing a truthful job. (Also go read my reply to him https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6316449 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6316449 ) It is stunning to find a modern country abusing human rights this way, and using a propaganda campaign to make their own citizens actually believe they are doing the right thing! I did not realize it was this easy to manipulate people with outright lies.
- dagw 13y ago
  Technically Sweden gives you a choice as to whether you want to send your kid to a private or government institute. Of course getting into one of the few decent private schools is somewhat non-trivial, making it slightly less of choice.

alipang 13y ago

I do find it disturbing that Sweden /requires/ you to send your kids to a government institute for hours each day to be educated. In practice, of course, free education is a great privilege for most families, but I fail how you a free society in congruent with this law. I'm Swedish, but have left the country. The quality of Swedish schools is less than outstanding imo.

ars 13y ago
> a government institute What about private schools?
darklajid 13y ago
I guess that's fine. You have always the option to leave a group of people/a society that has a different opinion. Germany requires the same (Homeschooling isn't allowed, except in very specific cases -> A child that cannot be transported/isn't mobile at all for example). For me that is The Right Way. The same education for everyone. If the public education sucks, we need to improve that not work around the issue. And .. the majority of reasons for homeschooling are plain invalid in my world (often based on religious ideas, claiming that the curriculum is containing 'forbidden'/'evil'/'wrong' stuff). 'Free society' doesn't imply the right to do everything. You cannot drink and drive. You're not allowed to beat your (very own, hey you made those!) children. For some, myself included, the requirement to send your kids to a 'real' school is a necessary thing and not Restricting The Freedom. You're free to disagree (both in Sweden and Germany), but in that case you need to decide if that freedom is important enough to warrant a move - or you can try to lobby against the majority/the status quo. Ignoring the state and law (as the family seemed to have done) or calling it wrong won't help.
- greenyoda 13y ago
  "For me that is The Right Way. The same education for everyone." Aren't there private schools in Germany where the wealthy send their children? If there are, then why shouldn't everyone have the choice to opt out of the public school system, not just the wealthy?
  - sentenza 13y ago
    Accredited private schools that are staffed with teachers that went through the same educational path as the public school teachers. Not home schooling.
- ars 13y ago
  > If the public education sucks What if group education is the problem? Parents being allowed to teach their children is a human right, and it's only very strange countries that block it. It smacks of government indoctrination. > And .. the majority of reasons for homeschooling are plain invalid in my world (often based on religious ideas, claiming that the curriculum is containing 'forbidden'/'evil'/'wrong' stuff). I guess the government indoctrination is working on you. (Did they run some propaganda ads to make you believe such a strange thing?) No, the reason most parents homeschool is that they can do a much better job, because you don't have to spend half of the day on useless structure and discipline. By doing that you free up so much time that kids can learn twice as much as non homeschooled kids. Or they can learn other subjects not normally taught, or they can explore their interests. It's not for all parents of course, it requires a good commitment. But homeschooled kids end up with much better educations that regular schooled ones. There have been many studies in the US on this subject and the results are very clear: Homeschooling works much better. > 'Free society' doesn't imply the right to do everything. For some, myself included, the requirement to send your kids to a 'real' school is a necessary thing and not Restricting The Freedom. Of course it is restricting. You have just been brainwashed. A society can make up any rules it likes, and I guess you'll go along with it. But you have to have a good reason for the rules. And there is no good reason at all for the ban on homeschooling.
  - darklajid 13y ago
DanBC 13y ago
Many (but not all!) people who homeschool do so because they wish to indoctrinate their children with weird beliefs or untruths, and because they want to prevent their children mixing with a diverse population. Neo nazis, radical extreme Muslims, Christians and Jews, Hippies - they all say very similar things for home schooling. This is the same kind of freedom that allows people to not vaccinate their children or to spend millions of dollars campaigning against Vapor Trails or Muslim-Sympathising-9/11-Commemorative-Sculptures or god only knows what other loony nonsense. Withdrawing your child from schools because schools are lousy is valid, but feels like a sad and selfish defeat. Why is education still run by people who ignore evidence? Why is education still in the grip of politicians?
- tekalon 13y ago
  Ask most homeschooling American parents (which is becoming a big thing now) and they will not answer that. Many are since the school system is lacking (and fighting it takes as long as the child's education if not longer). Others are due to the child needing specialized care that the system does not/cannot provide, examples being that the student had ADD/ADHD, on the autism spectrum, is gifted and bored but the school has no advanced options. There are many online/mail schooling options that help parents with topics, but also open the parent to create their own lessons (going to museums, go to a hacker/maker group, travel etc) that might be more hands on. There are also many homeschool groups where parents rotate teaching and opens up for 'socialization' (for those that worry about that issue). I'm not disagreeing that there are groups that are extreme, there will always be, but assuming that the majority are extreme and want to 'indoctrinate' with 'weird' beliefs is rather uninformed.
- ars 13y ago
  > because they want to prevent their children mixing with a diverse population. No, they just send their children to private school. > Neo nazis, radical extreme Muslims, Christians and Jews, Hippies - they all say very similar things for home schooling. No they don't. You have just been brainwashed by your government. You and darklajid both have very bizarre views about homeschooling - whoever is in charge of propaganda is clearly doing a good job, but he is not doing a truthful job. (Also go read my reply to him https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6316449 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6316449 ) It is stunning to find a modern country abusing human rights this way, and using a propaganda campaign to make their own citizens actually believe they are doing the right thing! I did not realize it was this easy to manipulate people with outright lies.
dagw 13y ago
Technically Sweden gives you a choice as to whether you want to send your kid to a private or government institute. Of course getting into one of the few decent private schools is somewhat non-trivial, making it slightly less of choice.