4 ms·

I wish more people in software followed this kind of advice. I see posts about air hockey or ping-pong tables and fully stocked mini-fridges as if that is an ac

I wish more people in software followed this kind of advice. I see posts about air hockey or ping-pong tables and fully stocked mini-fridges as if that is an acceptable replacement for ones free time and best creative years. Are we children, so easily fooled by the shiny, bright candy in the checkout aisle? Worse yet those who take the corporate-ladder type jobs at a big corp like MS, and sacrifice their friends, family, and home for something as meaningless as office or tablet apps. Your startup is probably not changing, or even improving the world. Your social media killer app is part of the problem, not the solution. And I know Microsoft/IBM/Oracle/etc gave up on improving the world a long time ago, instead opting for "shareholder" value, whatever that is. What good is money you can never enjoy? Your kids won't thank you if they don't even know who you are and have never spent time with you. Exhausted evenings don't count. I have chosen door number 3. I live an ultra-frugal lifestyle and am already planning an exit from my day job in the next decade, to retire before 40. People like Bill Watterson, Cory Doctorow, and Richard Stallman are on to something. They are actually enjoying life now - Are you?

sker 13y ago
Both approaches aren't mutually exclusive. I give priority to what you and the article are saying, but once you realize that, there's no reason why it can't be complemented by a high paying job. 40 hours of work a week, if you manage to find something you (half-)like, is a minor inconvenience compared to the alternative of not being able to enjoy many of the things our modern world has to offer.
- eksith 13y ago
  Problem is that many of the things the modern world has to offer fall conveniently between the short pauses of sanity we have to enjoy them in that 40 hours of work a week. And excluding work, we also need time for life as well. Things like shopping, laundry, cooking (if we do that at home) and fixing things that break. I hear plumbing does this quite often. Almost as much as code. The modern world has created an atmosphere that specifically caters to these things. Even games, if you think about it, are to be quickly done with in time for the next expansion or chapter. When was the last time you spent 6 hours working your way up to get a magic key with a picture of a goat to unlock a treasure cave... that itself holds another key to somewhere else?
  - jtheory 13y ago
    This is a bit of a tangent, but no, it's not plumbing; it's the living things that take all the time. I'm sure experiences vary, but since 1998 I've rented houses and apartments, spent a year helping to run a B&B with self-catering apartments, and have owned a house for 7 years now, and in all that time I've probably spent a day or two on plumbing-related maintenance. But taking care of a dog or two? A lawn? A garden? Fruit trees? Children? That's where the serious time goes. I wouldn't advise anyone to avoid taking on organic commitments (ha ha), but it's all about balance. Don't ever get a new puppy (10-15 year commitment) when you or your partner is pregnant. Don't buy a big house with a pool and a beautiful yard and vegetable garden unless you know who's going to be maintaining all that.
- moron4hire 13y ago
  Yeah, but if you worked 20 hours a week for yourself instead of 40 hours a week for the man, then you could easily make just as much money and have tons more time to enjoy it.
CKKim 13y ago
I do not have a corporate job, nor have I ever. The closest I have come is teaching in schools. However, I find your sentiment at odds with the experience of many I know in the corporate world. Most work long hours, but they find time for what is important to them and they find their work rewarding. The family time comes from what used to be Call of Duty or sport-watching time. When the kids grow up they get to do those things with them too. These people take care of their health, travel, and have rewarding family lives, they just have to be ruthlessly organised and priority-driven to focus on what is important to them (of which a respectable career is one aspect). In the past I have thought the way you do and the way the original post outlines, but I concluded that I was actually a little jealous of people with more stable, better-paying jobs who were well enough organised that they could still do the things that they considered important and I was actually just looking for ways to frame the situation to my superiority. When I hung out with these people I almost wanted them to sneer and demonstrate values that "someone who takes an undemanding job because it affords him the time to pursue other interest and activities is considered a flake", but they never did. I feel like most corporate folk I know totally "get" what people who haven't taken the same path as them are doing. At the moment I live in Japan and have friends who work some insane hours. Their Facebook efficiency to set up band practice and baseball (and even now cricket!!) for the few hours they have to spare is a source of constant astonishment to me. Right now, I'm looking at getting myself organised in that way and heading for a corporate job, not fleeing from one.
kamaal 13y ago
>>Your kids won't thank you if they don't even know who you are and have never spent time with you. Most kids, the moment they grow up will rather like you pay for their college fees, take care of them while they are settling down and you leave them a good inheritance. May be small kids would like you spend time with them, but even teenagers are smart enough to understand the importance of financial priorities in life. >>I live an ultra-frugal lifestyle and am already planning an exit from my day job in the next decade, to retire before 40. I don't know how you propose to come back home so early, practically do nothing on the side. Don't start a business on your own. And yet save your way to becoming a millionaire(Which I can tell you as a some one saves and invests very often, that's just not possible). Have you planned for medical emergencies, rising house rents, inflation and many other routine problems which come regularly in ones life etc? >>People like Bill Watterson, Cory Doctorow, and Richard Stallman are on to something. They are actually enjoying life now - Are you? There are two kinds of enjoyment a human being can experience. The pure philosophical kind of enjoyment of sitting on grass and sleeping under a tree. The other one is partying on a yacht. Both have their own fun.
- cko 13y ago
  >> Most kids, the moment they grow up will rather like you pay for their college fees, take care of them while they are settling down and you leave them a good inheritance. I'm still young with no kids, but that sounds awful. Especially "leave them a good inheritance."
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - jasonlotito 13y ago
    If that thought sounds awful, don't have kids. Seriously. And not because you'd find it awful to pay for their college fees or help take care of them while they are settling down. But because that's the easy part. The hard part is realizing that you're in it for life. It's not a 20-and-done commitment. It can be a life-long commitment, and beyond. But if that's your answers, you mentally aren't prepared for parenthood. Not that everyone who has children are ready.
TausAmmer 13y ago
Some hard questions. Why being with children is more important than drinking beer and playing hockey(In this case why having children is important?)? What is wrong with world? And how you would change it? Everyone goes on week long holiday every month(everyone in same time), what happens? How we can everyone go on week long holiday every month? Can this be solved? I mean, everyone. You run into nightmare solving this. It would be amazing if everyone, yes, everyone would go trough some hard questions about values and what they want, then put solutions in pool, partially solving many things. Professional consultant in the field with 20 year experience can only do so much. What is to enjoy life without experiencing hardships of life?

sker 13y ago

Both approaches aren't mutually exclusive. I give priority to what you and the article are saying, but once you realize that, there's no reason why it can't be complemented by a high paying job. 40 hours of work a week, if you manage to find something you (half-)like, is a minor inconvenience compared to the alternative of not being able to enjoy many of the things our modern world has to offer.

eksith 13y ago
Problem is that many of the things the modern world has to offer fall conveniently between the short pauses of sanity we have to enjoy them in that 40 hours of work a week. And excluding work, we also need time for life as well. Things like shopping, laundry, cooking (if we do that at home) and fixing things that break. I hear plumbing does this quite often. Almost as much as code. The modern world has created an atmosphere that specifically caters to these things. Even games, if you think about it, are to be quickly done with in time for the next expansion or chapter. When was the last time you spent 6 hours working your way up to get a magic key with a picture of a goat to unlock a treasure cave... that itself holds another key to somewhere else?
- jtheory 13y ago
  This is a bit of a tangent, but no, it's not plumbing; it's the living things that take all the time. I'm sure experiences vary, but since 1998 I've rented houses and apartments, spent a year helping to run a B&B with self-catering apartments, and have owned a house for 7 years now, and in all that time I've probably spent a day or two on plumbing-related maintenance. But taking care of a dog or two? A lawn? A garden? Fruit trees? Children? That's where the serious time goes. I wouldn't advise anyone to avoid taking on organic commitments (ha ha), but it's all about balance. Don't ever get a new puppy (10-15 year commitment) when you or your partner is pregnant. Don't buy a big house with a pool and a beautiful yard and vegetable garden unless you know who's going to be maintaining all that.
moron4hire 13y ago
Yeah, but if you worked 20 hours a week for yourself instead of 40 hours a week for the man, then you could easily make just as much money and have tons more time to enjoy it.

CKKim 13y ago

I do not have a corporate job, nor have I ever. The closest I have come is teaching in schools. However, I find your sentiment at odds with the experience of many I know in the corporate world. Most work long hours, but they find time for what is important to them and they find their work rewarding. The family time comes from what used to be Call of Duty or sport-watching time. When the kids grow up they get to do those things with them too. These people take care of their health, travel, and have rewarding family lives, they just have to be ruthlessly organised and priority-driven to focus on what is important to them (of which a respectable career is one aspect). In the past I have thought the way you do and the way the original post outlines, but I concluded that I was actually a little jealous of people with more stable, better-paying jobs who were well enough organised that they could still do the things that they considered important and I was actually just looking for ways to frame the situation to my superiority. When I hung out with these people I almost wanted them to sneer and demonstrate values that "someone who takes an undemanding job because it affords him the time to pursue other interest and activities is considered a flake", but they never did. I feel like most corporate folk I know totally "get" what people who haven't taken the same path as them are doing. At the moment I live in Japan and have friends who work some insane hours. Their Facebook efficiency to set up band practice and baseball (and even now cricket!!) for the few hours they have to spare is a source of constant astonishment to me. Right now, I'm looking at getting myself organised in that way and heading for a corporate job, not fleeing from one.

kamaal 13y ago

>>Your kids won't thank you if they don't even know who you are and have never spent time with you. Most kids, the moment they grow up will rather like you pay for their college fees, take care of them while they are settling down and you leave them a good inheritance. May be small kids would like you spend time with them, but even teenagers are smart enough to understand the importance of financial priorities in life. >>I live an ultra-frugal lifestyle and am already planning an exit from my day job in the next decade, to retire before 40. I don't know how you propose to come back home so early, practically do nothing on the side. Don't start a business on your own. And yet save your way to becoming a millionaire(Which I can tell you as a some one saves and invests very often, that's just not possible). Have you planned for medical emergencies, rising house rents, inflation and many other routine problems which come regularly in ones life etc? >>People like Bill Watterson, Cory Doctorow, and Richard Stallman are on to something. They are actually enjoying life now - Are you? There are two kinds of enjoyment a human being can experience. The pure philosophical kind of enjoyment of sitting on grass and sleeping under a tree. The other one is partying on a yacht. Both have their own fun.

cko 13y ago
>> Most kids, the moment they grow up will rather like you pay for their college fees, take care of them while they are settling down and you leave them a good inheritance. I'm still young with no kids, but that sounds awful. Especially "leave them a good inheritance."
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- jasonlotito 13y ago
  If that thought sounds awful, don't have kids. Seriously. And not because you'd find it awful to pay for their college fees or help take care of them while they are settling down. But because that's the easy part. The hard part is realizing that you're in it for life. It's not a 20-and-done commitment. It can be a life-long commitment, and beyond. But if that's your answers, you mentally aren't prepared for parenthood. Not that everyone who has children are ready.

TausAmmer 13y ago

Some hard questions. Why being with children is more important than drinking beer and playing hockey(In this case why having children is important?)? What is wrong with world? And how you would change it? Everyone goes on week long holiday every month(everyone in same time), what happens? How we can everyone go on week long holiday every month? Can this be solved? I mean, everyone. You run into nightmare solving this. It would be amazing if everyone, yes, everyone would go trough some hard questions about values and what they want, then put solutions in pool, partially solving many things. Professional consultant in the field with 20 year experience can only do so much. What is to enjoy life without experiencing hardships of life?