7 ms·

A beginner's guide to the conflict in (and country of) Syria

69 points by llambda 13y ago

seldo 13y ago
Another good (and slightly less flippant) introduction to the country and conflict from the WaPo: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/08/29/9-questions-about-syria-you-were-too-embarrassed-to-ask/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/08/29...
teamgb 13y ago
This looks and smells like propaganda. Only a single post, this one, has ever been posted on the account. http://thehowardbealeshow.tumblr.com/archive http://thehowardbealeshow.tumblr.com/archive
- ljf 13y ago
  Propaganda for who?
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
- johnpowell 13y ago
  Or maybe they wanted some anonymity.
ekianjo 13y ago
Too bad the whole post fell short at the end with the Syrian model picture. So what, if people were ugly there, you would not care as much ? That was a really bad way to finish the article, which was otherwise well written.
- alan_cx 13y ago
  Sex sells. If its good enough to flog cars and energy drinks, why not at least use it for something worthy? Stupid question: If a pornographic imagery some how increased the likely hood of help or even peace to Syria, should people use it such a tactic? Would "we" think less of them for doing so?
- ddeck 13y ago
  Not so much the photo, but the title: >Also, it doesn’t hurt that Syria happens to produce a lot of gorgeous human beings: WTH? Doesn't hurt what?
  - lostlogin 13y ago
    It would seem that it could hurt, judging by the weaponry the beautiful carry.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
tristanj 13y ago
The author missed one of the main reasons the west is involved in Syria: Energy. Syria sits right in between the oilfields in the Middle East and the oil consumers in Europe, so when a pipeline is built connecting the two, Syria has a vote for or against its completion. Since oil pipelines are both necessary and quite profitable, this can lead to very large disputes. Al Jazeera covered this last year here [1] where it was suggested that the West would be inclined to usurp Assad for someone more favorable to the West's long term energy interests. It seems their prediction was correct as the US (along with Britain and Turkey) is escalating relations with Syria, using chemical attacks and civil rights violations as justification. The Guardian also has a great summary of the issue here. [2] [1] http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/08/201285133440424621.html http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/08/20128513344... [2] http://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2013/aug/30/syria-chemical-attack-war-intervention-oil-gas-energy-pipelines http://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2013/au...
venomsnake 13y ago
A critical piece of the background is missing in my opinion - a lot of what is going on right now in ME, Central Asia and North Africa (I think that the events in all countries in that regions are one global trans national crisis) was set in motion by the Great Game, the colonial era, the messy unwinding of the Ottoman Empire and the less than stellar ending of the colonial regimes. It has been brewing for a long time.
revelation 13y ago
More like "a westerners introduction to the Syria conflict, as narrated by our media". I do not claim to know what is true and what isn't, but I do know that I can't even read or understand the language of the majority in Syria. I have no insight into sunnis and shiites. In 2010, Syria ranked place 121 in internet penetration. Frankly, I would not trust most any of the journalism on this topic. It's not malice or propaganda, it's just very likely to be very poorly researched.
- chime 13y ago
  > I do not claim to know what is true and what isn't, but I do know that I can't even read or understand the language of the majority in Syria. I have no insight into sunnis and shiites. If the above is true, then: > it's just very likely to be very poorly researched. Is just a strong assumption with no factual basis. I just watched the documentary linked in the post and found it fascinating ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E_oOuqsuQs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E_oOuqsuQs ). I agree with you that it is a westerners introduction to the conflict but that does not necessarily mean it is untruthworthy, incorrect, or poorly researched. It simply means it is seen through the eyes of a westerner. Think of it as the same photo shot by two accomplished photographers, one 5ft tall, another 7ft tall. Neither is fabricating anything, just looking at the same thing from a slightly different point of view. Just because the 7ft tall photographer is not a native like the 5ft tall photographer, does not mean the photo is unreliable.
bsaul 13y ago
This passage : "As the conflict has gone on, more and more foreign powers have supplied their side of choice with aid, both tacit and direct. Whether it be Hizbollah joining the side of the Syrian regime via Lebanon, Russia, China, North Korea and Iran delivering the regime military, political and financial support" is complete BS. Syria is an historical ally of Iran. It dates way before the protests, and the proof of that is in its control over Lebanon via the Hezbollah (which has been financed by Iran for more than 20 years). If you want to understand arabs war in general, look at who's Shia and who is Sunni (and from time to time, when sunnis and shias don't fight each other, look at who is a jew). Now for a quick sum up on the situation : Iran is trying to become a nuclear power. It's a shia country. Sunni don't want that (mainly saudi arabia and qatar). Syria is ruled by shias but the population is mostly sunni, so the ruling party is allied with Iran. Rebels are sunnis and mostly financed by saudi arabia and qatar. Until there was chemical weapons involved, most occidental countries were quite happy to see iran fight saudi arabia using a proxy war in Syria. They sell weapons (Russia sells to Syria, US sells to Saudi Arabia), and enjoy seeing radical islamists and dictatorial regime kill each other instead of joining forces against Israel or bomb european cities. But since Mr Obama said there was a "red line" and now that that "red line" has been crossed, US is forced to take side. On a sidenote, the US has helped islamists gain power recently in Egypt, against dictatorial regimes, hoping for a middle term transition to democracy (a bit like what is hoped for Turkey), but that failed very recently with egyptians wanting islamist party out. So the whole US strategy in the middle east right now is a bit of a mess anyway.
hankutark 13y ago
This post is seriously flawed as it completely forgot to mention the previous chemical attack. It happened a few months ago and there was a huge uproar by western states, specially US. But the media suspiciously quieted down as soon as many organisation including UN and French investigations proved that the rebels were behind the attack. No actions were taken then by any countries. And now this article claiming to provide info on the conflict has not a single mention about it. I call BS!!
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- NoPiece 13y ago
  The Le Monde article makes a strong case that there have been previous chemical attacks by the Syrian Goverment. http://www.lemonde.fr/proche-orient/article/2013/05/27/chemical-war-in-syria_3417708_3218.html http://www.lemonde.fr/proche-orient/article/2013/05/27/chemi... Can you share a link substantiating that French investigations proved rebels were behind some of the chemical attacks?
  - teamgb 13y ago
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10039672/UN-accuses-Syrian-rebels-of-chemical-weapons-use.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/1... UN accuses Syrian rebels of chemical weapons use Syrian rebels have made use of the deadly nerve agent sarin in their war-torn country's conflict, UN human rights investigator Carla del Ponte has said. "According to the testimonies we have gathered, the rebels have used chemical weapons, making use of sarin gas," del Ponte, a former war crimes prosecutor, said in an interview with Swiss radio late on Sunday. "We still have to deepen our investigation, verify and confirm (the findings) through new witness testimony, but according to what we have established so far, it is at the moment opponents of the regime who are using sarin gas," she added.
    - NoPiece 13y ago
      You have one investigator commenting on preliminary evidence, but the actual commission investigating not backing her up. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22424188 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22424188 Carla Del Ponte told Swiss TV that there were "strong, concrete suspicions but not yet incontrovertible proof". Ms Del Ponte did not rule out the possibility that government forces might also have used chemical weapons. Later, the commission stressed that it had "not reached conclusive findings" as to their use by any parties. "As a result, the commission is not in a position to further comment on the allegations at this time," a statement added. The BBC's Imogen Foulkes in Geneva says the statement was terse and shows that the UN was taken by surprise at Ms Del Ponte's remarks.
saejox 13y ago
I'm ashamed of my humanity after seeing this page. http://www.therevoltingsyrian.com/post/50495350134/does-this-not-outrage-you http://www.therevoltingsyrian.com/post/50495350134/does-this...
C1D 13y ago
I actually have a Syrian friend who I've recently been talking to about the situation in Syria and what this man said is mostly true except that this has been brewing for a long time. My friend's grandfather was sent to jail when his mother was 6, becuase his grandfather was a sunni politian against hafez assad's regim. His grandfather was in jail for 20/30 years and he told me how his mother didnt even know or remember her father until he was let out and she got to know him. He told me how when his mother was in school soldiers would drag sunni girls wearing hijab (face cover) by their hair out of the schools and they would never be seen again. The government would treat Sunnis like second class citizens. And something he didn't mention and most people don't know is that this very same thing is starting to happened in Lebanon. The army of Lebanon is hizbollah which is a Shia terrorist organisation and they have been mistreating Sunnis and now Sunnis are starting to rebel. I have a friend that was living in Lebanon and moved back to Australia because he told me a civil war is going to start.
Mekza 13y ago
Very relevant on Hacker News.
ck2 13y ago
What horrifies me is people saying "Syria this" and "Syria that". No, it's also consisting of many (perhaps mostly) innocent people like you and me who did nothing wrong and just want to live and get through their day peacefully. It's not some unified entity. It's a lot of innocent people caught in the middle.

69 points by llambda 13y ago

seldo 13y ago

Another good (and slightly less flippant) introduction to the country and conflict from the WaPo: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/08/29/9-questions-about-syria-you-were-too-embarrassed-to-ask/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/08/29...

teamgb 13y ago

This looks and smells like propaganda. Only a single post, this one, has ever been posted on the account. http://thehowardbealeshow.tumblr.com/archive http://thehowardbealeshow.tumblr.com/archive

ljf 13y ago
Propaganda for who?
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
johnpowell 13y ago
Or maybe they wanted some anonymity.

ekianjo 13y ago

Too bad the whole post fell short at the end with the Syrian model picture. So what, if people were ugly there, you would not care as much ? That was a really bad way to finish the article, which was otherwise well written.

alan_cx 13y ago
Sex sells. If its good enough to flog cars and energy drinks, why not at least use it for something worthy? Stupid question: If a pornographic imagery some how increased the likely hood of help or even peace to Syria, should people use it such a tactic? Would "we" think less of them for doing so?
ddeck 13y ago
Not so much the photo, but the title: >Also, it doesn’t hurt that Syria happens to produce a lot of gorgeous human beings: WTH? Doesn't hurt what?
- lostlogin 13y ago
  It would seem that it could hurt, judging by the weaponry the beautiful carry.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

tristanj 13y ago

The author missed one of the main reasons the west is involved in Syria: Energy. Syria sits right in between the oilfields in the Middle East and the oil consumers in Europe, so when a pipeline is built connecting the two, Syria has a vote for or against its completion. Since oil pipelines are both necessary and quite profitable, this can lead to very large disputes. Al Jazeera covered this last year here [1] where it was suggested that the West would be inclined to usurp Assad for someone more favorable to the West's long term energy interests. It seems their prediction was correct as the US (along with Britain and Turkey) is escalating relations with Syria, using chemical attacks and civil rights violations as justification. The Guardian also has a great summary of the issue here. [2] [1] http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/08/201285133440424621.html http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/08/20128513344... [2] http://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2013/aug/30/syria-chemical-attack-war-intervention-oil-gas-energy-pipelines http://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2013/au...

venomsnake 13y ago

A critical piece of the background is missing in my opinion - a lot of what is going on right now in ME, Central Asia and North Africa (I think that the events in all countries in that regions are one global trans national crisis) was set in motion by the Great Game, the colonial era, the messy unwinding of the Ottoman Empire and the less than stellar ending of the colonial regimes. It has been brewing for a long time.

revelation 13y ago

More like "a westerners introduction to the Syria conflict, as narrated by our media". I do not claim to know what is true and what isn't, but I do know that I can't even read or understand the language of the majority in Syria. I have no insight into sunnis and shiites. In 2010, Syria ranked place 121 in internet penetration. Frankly, I would not trust most any of the journalism on this topic. It's not malice or propaganda, it's just very likely to be very poorly researched.

chime 13y ago
> I do not claim to know what is true and what isn't, but I do know that I can't even read or understand the language of the majority in Syria. I have no insight into sunnis and shiites. If the above is true, then: > it's just very likely to be very poorly researched. Is just a strong assumption with no factual basis. I just watched the documentary linked in the post and found it fascinating ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E_oOuqsuQs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E_oOuqsuQs ). I agree with you that it is a westerners introduction to the conflict but that does not necessarily mean it is untruthworthy, incorrect, or poorly researched. It simply means it is seen through the eyes of a westerner. Think of it as the same photo shot by two accomplished photographers, one 5ft tall, another 7ft tall. Neither is fabricating anything, just looking at the same thing from a slightly different point of view. Just because the 7ft tall photographer is not a native like the 5ft tall photographer, does not mean the photo is unreliable.

bsaul 13y ago

This passage : "As the conflict has gone on, more and more foreign powers have supplied their side of choice with aid, both tacit and direct. Whether it be Hizbollah joining the side of the Syrian regime via Lebanon, Russia, China, North Korea and Iran delivering the regime military, political and financial support" is complete BS. Syria is an historical ally of Iran. It dates way before the protests, and the proof of that is in its control over Lebanon via the Hezbollah (which has been financed by Iran for more than 20 years). If you want to understand arabs war in general, look at who's Shia and who is Sunni (and from time to time, when sunnis and shias don't fight each other, look at who is a jew). Now for a quick sum up on the situation : Iran is trying to become a nuclear power. It's a shia country. Sunni don't want that (mainly saudi arabia and qatar). Syria is ruled by shias but the population is mostly sunni, so the ruling party is allied with Iran. Rebels are sunnis and mostly financed by saudi arabia and qatar. Until there was chemical weapons involved, most occidental countries were quite happy to see iran fight saudi arabia using a proxy war in Syria. They sell weapons (Russia sells to Syria, US sells to Saudi Arabia), and enjoy seeing radical islamists and dictatorial regime kill each other instead of joining forces against Israel or bomb european cities. But since Mr Obama said there was a "red line" and now that that "red line" has been crossed, US is forced to take side. On a sidenote, the US has helped islamists gain power recently in Egypt, against dictatorial regimes, hoping for a middle term transition to democracy (a bit like what is hoped for Turkey), but that failed very recently with egyptians wanting islamist party out. So the whole US strategy in the middle east right now is a bit of a mess anyway.

hankutark 13y ago

This post is seriously flawed as it completely forgot to mention the previous chemical attack. It happened a few months ago and there was a huge uproar by western states, specially US. But the media suspiciously quieted down as soon as many organisation including UN and French investigations proved that the rebels were behind the attack. No actions were taken then by any countries. And now this article claiming to provide info on the conflict has not a single mention about it. I call BS!!

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
NoPiece 13y ago
The Le Monde article makes a strong case that there have been previous chemical attacks by the Syrian Goverment. http://www.lemonde.fr/proche-orient/article/2013/05/27/chemical-war-in-syria_3417708_3218.html http://www.lemonde.fr/proche-orient/article/2013/05/27/chemi... Can you share a link substantiating that French investigations proved rebels were behind some of the chemical attacks?
- teamgb 13y ago
  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10039672/UN-accuses-Syrian-rebels-of-chemical-weapons-use.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/1... UN accuses Syrian rebels of chemical weapons use Syrian rebels have made use of the deadly nerve agent sarin in their war-torn country's conflict, UN human rights investigator Carla del Ponte has said. "According to the testimonies we have gathered, the rebels have used chemical weapons, making use of sarin gas," del Ponte, a former war crimes prosecutor, said in an interview with Swiss radio late on Sunday. "We still have to deepen our investigation, verify and confirm (the findings) through new witness testimony, but according to what we have established so far, it is at the moment opponents of the regime who are using sarin gas," she added.
  - NoPiece 13y ago
    You have one investigator commenting on preliminary evidence, but the actual commission investigating not backing her up. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22424188 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22424188 Carla Del Ponte told Swiss TV that there were "strong, concrete suspicions but not yet incontrovertible proof". Ms Del Ponte did not rule out the possibility that government forces might also have used chemical weapons. Later, the commission stressed that it had "not reached conclusive findings" as to their use by any parties. "As a result, the commission is not in a position to further comment on the allegations at this time," a statement added. The BBC's Imogen Foulkes in Geneva says the statement was terse and shows that the UN was taken by surprise at Ms Del Ponte's remarks.

saejox 13y ago

I'm ashamed of my humanity after seeing this page. http://www.therevoltingsyrian.com/post/50495350134/does-this-not-outrage-you http://www.therevoltingsyrian.com/post/50495350134/does-this...

C1D 13y ago

I actually have a Syrian friend who I've recently been talking to about the situation in Syria and what this man said is mostly true except that this has been brewing for a long time. My friend's grandfather was sent to jail when his mother was 6, becuase his grandfather was a sunni politian against hafez assad's regim. His grandfather was in jail for 20/30 years and he told me how his mother didnt even know or remember her father until he was let out and she got to know him. He told me how when his mother was in school soldiers would drag sunni girls wearing hijab (face cover) by their hair out of the schools and they would never be seen again. The government would treat Sunnis like second class citizens. And something he didn't mention and most people don't know is that this very same thing is starting to happened in Lebanon. The army of Lebanon is hizbollah which is a Shia terrorist organisation and they have been mistreating Sunnis and now Sunnis are starting to rebel. I have a friend that was living in Lebanon and moved back to Australia because he told me a civil war is going to start.

Mekza 13y ago

Very relevant on Hacker News.

ck2 13y ago

What horrifies me is people saying "Syria this" and "Syria that". No, it's also consisting of many (perhaps mostly) innocent people like you and me who did nothing wrong and just want to live and get through their day peacefully. It's not some unified entity. It's a lot of innocent people caught in the middle.