5 ms·

At the time of this comment, there is a post on the HN front page titled "More Connected, Yet More Alone" (link: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6312076 ht

by bliti 13y ago

At the time of this comment, there is a post on the HN front page titled "More Connected, Yet More Alone" (link: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6312076 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6312076 ). One thing that automation like this misses is the much needed human interaction. Yes, humans are not as efficient or dependable as machines (not yet). But we are now entering a rather depressing period in history where human interaction is set aside in favor of digital and mechanical efficiency.

wtallis 13y ago
http://xkcd.com/1227/ http://xkcd.com/1227/ Your complaint is nothing new. People will always be able to romanticize the past.
- veridies 13y ago
  The present is better (for humans) than the past. But that doesn't mean that everything is better. When I go to Safeway, and have to go through a self-checkout, I do feel less connected to the people around me. When I order delivery, it's online through GrubHub, not over the phone. It's fairly obvious that automation is decreasing the amount that we have to interact with one another, and some people dislike that. This is a specific problem that's because caused by automation, even though automation solves many other problems. It's a problem that should be thought about and fixed. And your attitude of "things are generally better now, so don't complain" is utterly counter-productive.
  - wtallis 13y ago
    I absolutely reject your assertion that there is any net harm to be mitigated. Automated customer service reduces those moments where human interaction is required, but in the process frees up time for us to devote to more meaningful forms of human interaction. It certainly doesn't prevent you from interacting with other people, just frees you from the obligation of some fleeting encounters. And I personally don't find those encounters to be all that rewarding on average - a good customer service experience doesn't brighten my day much, but an avoidably bad one really kills the mood. You should probably learn to accept the fact that some people want the option of having a business transaction be strictly business, without the overhead of social conventions of politeness. This does not make a person anti-social, it just makes them not so pathologically extroverted that they need human interaction (error-prone, and still relatively impersonal over the phone) just to order a pizza.
    - veridies 13y ago
      I never said there was any net harm; quite the opposite. Nuclear power is incredibly useful and relatively good for the environment, but there is the risk of meltdown. While it's a net positive, there are still issues that should be discussed and dealt with. The fact is that much of our lives is spent doing things like buying things, eating out, et cetera. And for many people, spending your time doing those things without any human contact is lonely. It may not be for you, but you don't speak for everyone. I absolutely believe in automating as much labor as is possible. Nonetheless, I think there is room for improvement in how society functions so that we get both efficiency and, for those who want it, human contact. I do, however, reject your premise that automated customer service is better than in-person help. I am not an expert at checking out groceries in the same way that a cashier is. I go much slower through the process, and have to focus more on that. Right now, automated customer services largely serves to cut down on costs, not to improve service. (I also never said anyone was anti-social. I do think that "pathologically extroverted" is needlessly insulting, and "need human interaction" is a strawman. I don't need a cloth napkin either; I just prefer it.)
marknutter 13y ago
Y'know, I may be missing something but I don't feel like I get much out of the fleeting interaction I have with checkout people. They are almost always "tuned out" and any kindness they dispense is completely rote. If we're worried about human interaction, fire the checkout people and hire more greeters.
- lesterbuck 13y ago
  Oddly enough, I find the "tuned out" nature of most checkout people to be an opportunity. At least for the past fifteen years, I play a game with checkout people. My goal is to get them to smile. I make some comment about something, anything, with the goal to get them to respond and hopefully smile at me, and take me as something other than one of the hundreds of people they contact each day. I'm about 90% successful, but I keep trying for 100%. Every once in a while, either I'm really distracted or I see they are so distracted that I don't try. I have an ulterior motive: as I polish my skill at making a random stranger smile, I get better at tossing out a verbal gambit on very short notice to an attractive stranger.
- robryan 13y ago
  Yes, whether they are completely disinterested or overly cheery the majority of the time they appear that they couldn't care less about your transaction. Which is fine, it just feels less weird of an interaction when it is a machine that doesn't care.

by bliti 13y ago

wtallis 13y ago

http://xkcd.com/1227/ http://xkcd.com/1227/ Your complaint is nothing new. People will always be able to romanticize the past.

veridies 13y ago
The present is better (for humans) than the past. But that doesn't mean that everything is better. When I go to Safeway, and have to go through a self-checkout, I do feel less connected to the people around me. When I order delivery, it's online through GrubHub, not over the phone. It's fairly obvious that automation is decreasing the amount that we have to interact with one another, and some people dislike that. This is a specific problem that's because caused by automation, even though automation solves many other problems. It's a problem that should be thought about and fixed. And your attitude of "things are generally better now, so don't complain" is utterly counter-productive.
- wtallis 13y ago
  I absolutely reject your assertion that there is any net harm to be mitigated. Automated customer service reduces those moments where human interaction is required, but in the process frees up time for us to devote to more meaningful forms of human interaction. It certainly doesn't prevent you from interacting with other people, just frees you from the obligation of some fleeting encounters. And I personally don't find those encounters to be all that rewarding on average - a good customer service experience doesn't brighten my day much, but an avoidably bad one really kills the mood. You should probably learn to accept the fact that some people want the option of having a business transaction be strictly business, without the overhead of social conventions of politeness. This does not make a person anti-social, it just makes them not so pathologically extroverted that they need human interaction (error-prone, and still relatively impersonal over the phone) just to order a pizza.
  - veridies 13y ago
    I never said there was any net harm; quite the opposite. Nuclear power is incredibly useful and relatively good for the environment, but there is the risk of meltdown. While it's a net positive, there are still issues that should be discussed and dealt with. The fact is that much of our lives is spent doing things like buying things, eating out, et cetera. And for many people, spending your time doing those things without any human contact is lonely. It may not be for you, but you don't speak for everyone. I absolutely believe in automating as much labor as is possible. Nonetheless, I think there is room for improvement in how society functions so that we get both efficiency and, for those who want it, human contact. I do, however, reject your premise that automated customer service is better than in-person help. I am not an expert at checking out groceries in the same way that a cashier is. I go much slower through the process, and have to focus more on that. Right now, automated customer services largely serves to cut down on costs, not to improve service. (I also never said anyone was anti-social. I do think that "pathologically extroverted" is needlessly insulting, and "need human interaction" is a strawman. I don't need a cloth napkin either; I just prefer it.)

marknutter 13y ago

Y'know, I may be missing something but I don't feel like I get much out of the fleeting interaction I have with checkout people. They are almost always "tuned out" and any kindness they dispense is completely rote. If we're worried about human interaction, fire the checkout people and hire more greeters.

lesterbuck 13y ago
Oddly enough, I find the "tuned out" nature of most checkout people to be an opportunity. At least for the past fifteen years, I play a game with checkout people. My goal is to get them to smile. I make some comment about something, anything, with the goal to get them to respond and hopefully smile at me, and take me as something other than one of the hundreds of people they contact each day. I'm about 90% successful, but I keep trying for 100%. Every once in a while, either I'm really distracted or I see they are so distracted that I don't try. I have an ulterior motive: as I polish my skill at making a random stranger smile, I get better at tossing out a verbal gambit on very short notice to an attractive stranger.
robryan 13y ago
Yes, whether they are completely disinterested or overly cheery the majority of the time they appear that they couldn't care less about your transaction. Which is fine, it just feels less weird of an interaction when it is a machine that doesn't care.