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No, if you decide you don't want to do business with that entity anymore then you have to get off that entity's land. Just like if you decide that you don't wan

No, if you decide you don't want to do business with that entity anymore then you have to get off that entity's land. Just like if you decide that you don't want to do business with a parking lot company anymore, you have to move your car out of their parking lot. The punishment isn't for deciding not to do business with the government, it's for taking government services without paying for them. You won't go to prison or be killed for leaving the country.

natrius 13y ago
"No, if you decide you don't want to do business with that entity anymore then you have to get off that entity's land." Not if you believe that governments derive their power from the consent of the governed.
- nbouscal 13y ago
  Even if governments do derive their power from the consent of the governed, the governed have consented to government sovereignty. That being the case, I don't follow your argument.
  - natrius 13y ago
    My argument is that of the American colonists seeking to throw off the shackles of their British masters. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
Radim 13y ago
So governments own everything by default, and if you don't like it, just piss off (assuming they let you)? Leave your home country, give up, adieu? You may be joking, or pushing a theoretical concept, I have no way of knowing. But coming from eastern Europe, I find this world view of your-life-as-leased-from-government disturbing. Because you know, the next step to "the government owns all lands" is "government owns all babies, and if they don't like how you raise it, they'll 'take it back'". It's all been here before.
- nbouscal 13y ago
  Your life isn't leased from government, your land is, and while you choose to live on their land you must follow their rules or deal with the consequences of not doing so. You can make all the slippery slope arguments you want, but they won't change that reality. And while you may think you have some great solution, wherein you can be sovereign on your land and somehow not have to personally defend it from nation-state level adversaries, those of us acquainted with the real world know this not to be the case. So, we end up with governments, and those governments are generally pretty shit, but they beat the hell out of the alternative. If you really want sovereignty, then rather than wasting time with the typical libertarian bullshit, whining about how taxes are violence and so on and so forth, you should instead be putting everything you have behind space exploration. The only practical return to individual sovereignty is the return of sufficient unclaimed land, and the only way for that to happen without a lot of people dying is for us to raise our sights to living other places than Earth.
  - Radim 13y ago
    Do you have any idea where humanity would be if we followed your advise? "Accept the status quo, or piss off to Mars"? Seriously? Do you know how USA itself was formed? You sound like a somewhat uninspiring, jaded person, but that's your problem. I just don't like people spreading FUD. There's a lot that can be done, here on Earth, to improve liberty and individual freedom. Which is, by the way, not mutually exclusive with supporting space exploration (false dilemma).
    - 13y ago

natrius 13y ago

"No, if you decide you don't want to do business with that entity anymore then you have to get off that entity's land." Not if you believe that governments derive their power from the consent of the governed.

nbouscal 13y ago
Even if governments do derive their power from the consent of the governed, the governed have consented to government sovereignty. That being the case, I don't follow your argument.
- natrius 13y ago
  My argument is that of the American colonists seeking to throw off the shackles of their British masters. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Radim 13y ago

So governments own everything by default, and if you don't like it, just piss off (assuming they let you)? Leave your home country, give up, adieu? You may be joking, or pushing a theoretical concept, I have no way of knowing. But coming from eastern Europe, I find this world view of your-life-as-leased-from-government disturbing. Because you know, the next step to "the government owns all lands" is "government owns all babies, and if they don't like how you raise it, they'll 'take it back'". It's all been here before.

nbouscal 13y ago
Your life isn't leased from government, your land is, and while you choose to live on their land you must follow their rules or deal with the consequences of not doing so. You can make all the slippery slope arguments you want, but they won't change that reality. And while you may think you have some great solution, wherein you can be sovereign on your land and somehow not have to personally defend it from nation-state level adversaries, those of us acquainted with the real world know this not to be the case. So, we end up with governments, and those governments are generally pretty shit, but they beat the hell out of the alternative. If you really want sovereignty, then rather than wasting time with the typical libertarian bullshit, whining about how taxes are violence and so on and so forth, you should instead be putting everything you have behind space exploration. The only practical return to individual sovereignty is the return of sufficient unclaimed land, and the only way for that to happen without a lot of people dying is for us to raise our sights to living other places than Earth.
- Radim 13y ago
  Do you have any idea where humanity would be if we followed your advise? "Accept the status quo, or piss off to Mars"? Seriously? Do you know how USA itself was formed? You sound like a somewhat uninspiring, jaded person, but that's your problem. I just don't like people spreading FUD. There's a lot that can be done, here on Earth, to improve liberty and individual freedom. Which is, by the way, not mutually exclusive with supporting space exploration (false dilemma).
  - 13y ago