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This comment is an example of the worst political commentary. It doesn't even try to make sense, and is more a form of paranoid, libertarian verbal diarrhoea th

This comment is an example of the worst political commentary. It doesn't even try to make sense, and is more a form of paranoid, libertarian verbal diarrhoea than an actual reasoned argument. Libertarians would have a much easier time living with the government if they just thought of it as a corporation, upon whose land they work, live and play. The 15% income fee is merely the cost of doing business. Welcome to Disneyland, ahem, I mean, America.

Radim 13y ago
Oh, but the issue is not whether we think of something as a "corporation" or not. After all, that's just playing with words. The issue is, what happens if you decide you don't want to do business with that entity anymore? In case of state, the punishment is prison and, resisting that, death. That is the part that libertarians object to, and it doesn't matter whether that entity calls itself "corporation", "mafia" or "government".
- 15charusername 13y ago
  And if it wasn't a government but instead a corporation, the only thing that would change is that you don't even get to vote!
  - notdrunkatall 13y ago
    Incorrect. The libertarian government ideal is that the government's main purpose (and some would say sole purpose) should be to protect people against such occurrences. So there is most definitely a mechanism to protect people against aggression from those with more power; in fact, libertarianism is built on the principle which underlies it.
  - SiVal 13y ago
    What nonsense. In a free market economy, you vote every time you voluntarily accept an offer. Not voting for a corporation, a vote that costs you your own money, is a vote against it, because corporations die by default. If ever people stop accepting new offers, the corporation will die. They can't force you to accept an offer or to pay for an offer accepted by someone else. With a government -- or a corporation supported by crony capitalism, which is just more government -- a program doesn't have to convince the payers that it's worth paying for. It just has to convince those with the power to take money from others by force to do so and give them some of it.
- nbouscal 13y ago
  No, if you decide you don't want to do business with that entity anymore then you have to get off that entity's land. Just like if you decide that you don't want to do business with a parking lot company anymore, you have to move your car out of their parking lot. The punishment isn't for deciding not to do business with the government, it's for taking government services without paying for them. You won't go to prison or be killed for leaving the country.
  - natrius 13y ago
    "No, if you decide you don't want to do business with that entity anymore then you have to get off that entity's land." Not if you believe that governments derive their power from the consent of the governed.
    - nbouscal 13y ago
      Even if governments do derive their power from the consent of the governed, the governed have consented to government sovereignty. That being the case, I don't follow your argument.
      - natrius 13y ago
        My argument is that of the American colonists seeking to throw off the shackles of their British masters. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
  - Radim 13y ago
    So governments own everything by default, and if you don't like it, just piss off (assuming they let you)? Leave your home country, give up, adieu? You may be joking, or pushing a theoretical concept, I have no way of knowing. But coming from eastern Europe, I find this world view of your-life-as-leased-from-government disturbing. Because you know, the next step to "the government owns all lands" is "government owns all babies, and if they don't like how you raise it, they'll 'take it back'". It's all been here before.

Radim 13y ago

Oh, but the issue is not whether we think of something as a "corporation" or not. After all, that's just playing with words. The issue is, what happens if you decide you don't want to do business with that entity anymore? In case of state, the punishment is prison and, resisting that, death. That is the part that libertarians object to, and it doesn't matter whether that entity calls itself "corporation", "mafia" or "government".

15charusername 13y ago
And if it wasn't a government but instead a corporation, the only thing that would change is that you don't even get to vote!
- notdrunkatall 13y ago
  Incorrect. The libertarian government ideal is that the government's main purpose (and some would say sole purpose) should be to protect people against such occurrences. So there is most definitely a mechanism to protect people against aggression from those with more power; in fact, libertarianism is built on the principle which underlies it.
- SiVal 13y ago
  What nonsense. In a free market economy, you vote every time you voluntarily accept an offer. Not voting for a corporation, a vote that costs you your own money, is a vote against it, because corporations die by default. If ever people stop accepting new offers, the corporation will die. They can't force you to accept an offer or to pay for an offer accepted by someone else. With a government -- or a corporation supported by crony capitalism, which is just more government -- a program doesn't have to convince the payers that it's worth paying for. It just has to convince those with the power to take money from others by force to do so and give them some of it.
nbouscal 13y ago
No, if you decide you don't want to do business with that entity anymore then you have to get off that entity's land. Just like if you decide that you don't want to do business with a parking lot company anymore, you have to move your car out of their parking lot. The punishment isn't for deciding not to do business with the government, it's for taking government services without paying for them. You won't go to prison or be killed for leaving the country.
- natrius 13y ago
  "No, if you decide you don't want to do business with that entity anymore then you have to get off that entity's land." Not if you believe that governments derive their power from the consent of the governed.
  - nbouscal 13y ago
    Even if governments do derive their power from the consent of the governed, the governed have consented to government sovereignty. That being the case, I don't follow your argument.
    - natrius 13y ago
      My argument is that of the American colonists seeking to throw off the shackles of their British masters. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
- Radim 13y ago
  So governments own everything by default, and if you don't like it, just piss off (assuming they let you)? Leave your home country, give up, adieu? You may be joking, or pushing a theoretical concept, I have no way of knowing. But coming from eastern Europe, I find this world view of your-life-as-leased-from-government disturbing. Because you know, the next step to "the government owns all lands" is "government owns all babies, and if they don't like how you raise it, they'll 'take it back'". It's all been here before.