3 ms·

Radiation Near Japanese Plant’s Tanks Suggests New Leaks

41 points by ghshephard 13y ago

ghshephard 13y ago
" The highest reading was 1,800 millisieverts per hour, or enough to give a lethal dose in about four hours, Tepco said." ... "About 430,000 tons of contaminated water, or enough to fill 170 Olympic-size pools, are stored in rows of tanks at the plant, which appears to be running out of open space to put them all. The contaminated water increases by 400 tons every day as groundwater flows into the basements of the damaged buildings housing the three ruined reactors, which melted down in the worst nuclear accident since Chernobyl in 1986. Tepco must draw off that water to prevent it from overwhelming jury-rigged cooling systems that keep the reactors’ melted cores from reheating and melting into the ground in a phenomenon known as the China syndrome. Tepco has struggled to safely handle and store all the water."
- ghshephard 13y ago
  reading through http://xkcd.com/radiation/ http://xkcd.com/radiation/ really makes it clear (to me) how much 1800 milliseverts/hour is. The Maximum yearly dose for a US Radiation worker is 50 milliseverts. And Radiation over a year does much less damage than all at once. You really, really don't want to be anywhere near those storage tanks without a LOT of protective gear. No idea how they are going to clean up all that spilled water...
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    > And Radiation over a year does much less damage than all at once. With some obvious cutoffs on the upper end (that 1800 millisieverts/hour may very well be over), that does not seem to be entirely clear. It is a topic that has gotten some debate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_no-threshold_model http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_no-threshold_model
frank_boyd 13y ago
First, they said, "oh, it's just level 1, don't worry..." Then, they said, "uhm, it's level 3, but still, don't worry..." Now, they say, "it's actually x18 as bad". Lesson learned: Never trust people in power in the slightest way, it's always full of lies and incompetence. One of the new things that society needs on all levels is: Transparency.
snogglethorpe 13y ago
Whatever happened to the French-designed water filtration systems they were testing at Fukushima last year...? They were supposed to remove most of the radioactive material from the water, leaving behind a thick radioactive sludge (nasty stuff, but much less volume to store) and much less radioactive water (safer to store and much less problematic if there are leaks etc). I remember they were having some clogging issues, but the system basically worked, and I'd have thought they would have worked out the kinks by now...
ams6110 13y ago
Intellectually I like the idea of nuclear power. It should be safe, cheap, and environmentally clean. Unfortunately I think the evidence shows that humanity is not intelligent enough to pull it off.
- nitrogen 13y ago
  Judging nuclear power by 50 year old designs at Fukushima is somewhat like judging the computer revolution by early networks. Imagine someone saying, "I like the idea of the Internet, but the Morris Worm shows that humanity is not intelligent enough to pull iy off." One of the problems nuclear power is the incredibly long generational cycles keeping old tech running and slowing the iterative improvement cycle you see with e.g. aviation and detailed NTSB reports.
- angersock 13y ago
  The track record of the largest nuclear operator in the world, the United States Navy, begs to disagree.
Someone 13y ago
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/09/01/japan-fukushima-reactor-radiation-levels-spike.html http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/09/01/japan-fukushim... is way more worrying: "Instruments used previously had only been capable of measuring radiation up to 100 millisieverts, but the new instruments were able to measure up to 10,000 millisieverts" If true, that could mean people received a significant dose earlier. On the other hand, I cannot find what kind and energies of radiation we are talking about. The Sievert may be the best we have for standardizing health effects across radiation types, but it does not really work well (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3ASievert http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3ASievert), and there is a big difference in the ease of protecting against different types of radiation.

41 points by ghshephard 13y ago

" The highest reading was 1,800 millisieverts per hour, or enough to give a lethal dose in about four hours, Tepco said." ... "About 430,000 tons of contaminated water, or enough to fill 170 Olympic-size pools, are stored in rows of tanks at the plant, which appears to be running out of open space to put them all. The contaminated water increases by 400 tons every day as groundwater flows into the basements of the damaged buildings housing the three ruined reactors, which melted down in the worst nuclear accident since Chernobyl in 1986. Tepco must draw off that water to prevent it from overwhelming jury-rigged cooling systems that keep the reactors’ melted cores from reheating and melting into the ground in a phenomenon known as the China syndrome. Tepco has struggled to safely handle and store all the water."

ghshephard 13y ago
reading through http://xkcd.com/radiation/ http://xkcd.com/radiation/ really makes it clear (to me) how much 1800 milliseverts/hour is. The Maximum yearly dose for a US Radiation worker is 50 milliseverts. And Radiation over a year does much less damage than all at once. You really, really don't want to be anywhere near those storage tanks without a LOT of protective gear. No idea how they are going to clean up all that spilled water...
- jlgreco 13y ago
  > And Radiation over a year does much less damage than all at once. With some obvious cutoffs on the upper end (that 1800 millisieverts/hour may very well be over), that does not seem to be entirely clear. It is a topic that has gotten some debate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_no-threshold_model http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_no-threshold_model

frank_boyd 13y ago

First, they said, "oh, it's just level 1, don't worry..." Then, they said, "uhm, it's level 3, but still, don't worry..." Now, they say, "it's actually x18 as bad". Lesson learned: Never trust people in power in the slightest way, it's always full of lies and incompetence. One of the new things that society needs on all levels is: Transparency.

snogglethorpe 13y ago

Whatever happened to the French-designed water filtration systems they were testing at Fukushima last year...? They were supposed to remove most of the radioactive material from the water, leaving behind a thick radioactive sludge (nasty stuff, but much less volume to store) and much less radioactive water (safer to store and much less problematic if there are leaks etc). I remember they were having some clogging issues, but the system basically worked, and I'd have thought they would have worked out the kinks by now...

ams6110 13y ago

Intellectually I like the idea of nuclear power. It should be safe, cheap, and environmentally clean. Unfortunately I think the evidence shows that humanity is not intelligent enough to pull it off.

nitrogen 13y ago
Judging nuclear power by 50 year old designs at Fukushima is somewhat like judging the computer revolution by early networks. Imagine someone saying, "I like the idea of the Internet, but the Morris Worm shows that humanity is not intelligent enough to pull iy off." One of the problems nuclear power is the incredibly long generational cycles keeping old tech running and slowing the iterative improvement cycle you see with e.g. aviation and detailed NTSB reports.
angersock 13y ago
The track record of the largest nuclear operator in the world, the United States Navy, begs to disagree.

Someone 13y ago

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/09/01/japan-fukushima-reactor-radiation-levels-spike.html http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/09/01/japan-fukushim... is way more worrying: "Instruments used previously had only been capable of measuring radiation up to 100 millisieverts, but the new instruments were able to measure up to 10,000 millisieverts" If true, that could mean people received a significant dose earlier. On the other hand, I cannot find what kind and energies of radiation we are talking about. The Sievert may be the best we have for standardizing health effects across radiation types, but it does not really work well (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3ASievert http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3ASievert), and there is a big difference in the ease of protecting against different types of radiation.