4 ms·

Oh man, I know that. I have to put up with German bureaucracy regularly. Compared to my experiences with running a company in the UK it's almost like the Germa

Oh man, I know that. I have to put up with German bureaucracy regularly. Compared to my experiences with running a company in the UK it's almost like the Germans don't want you to run a company at all.

brador 13y ago
Why not start the company in the UK and just run it from Germany? It's all in the EU, right?
- junto 13y ago
  I'm fairly sure that under German rules such a company (single director, Germany based) would be treated as German. Thus all taxes would need to be paid in Germany. You'd have double accounting, and have to file (manually) null accounts in the UK to satisfy Companies House, and file actual accounts in Germany. Royal pain in the ass.
- kybernetyk 13y ago
  Well, when I'm living in Germany I still have to register the branch of the Ltd here. And I still have to register with the Handelsregister, put up with the IHK and the stupendous tax system. A Ltd. doesn't really have any advantage in that scenario besides fast incorporation times.
UK-AL 13y ago
It's because the UK is Entrepreneurial. No body bats an eyelid if a 16 year old starts a company in the UK. It's normal. In Germany, your meant to have the correct education, certificates, and experience before your own company. There's tons of red tape.
- patrickg 13y ago
  Huh? What stops anybody from registering a company at the Handelsregister and start working? Who needs a certificate and a proof of experience? Or do you mean society enforces it?
  - junto 13y ago
    Depends on what kind of company GmbH costs about 25,000 EUR to setup. You don't get that money back.
    - patrickg 13y ago
      1) You can run UG which starts at 1 EUR (+ 100-200 Euro for bureaucracy). 2) It is your money to spend. You never give it to anybody else. So "you don't get that money back" is completely incorrect.
      - kybernetyk 13y ago
        The UG is a step in the right direction. Though they half assed it a little. You get a gmbh-lite but have to put up with the full administrative burden. That and the name suffix: "<my company> UG (haftunsgbeschraenkt)". Internationally no one knows what a UG is. Doesn't really matter for a local bakery but if you're running an international software business it becomes at least a little important. > 2) It is your money to spend. Actually it's your company's money to spend. So "you don't get it back" is partially correct ;)
  - UK-AL 13y ago
    Both. In certain trades, you can only start on your own if you get to a to certain level of certification.
    - patrickg 13y ago
      But in most trades you can just start.
  - kybernetyk 13y ago
    > Huh? What stops anybody from registering a company at the Handelsregister and start working? Maybe not really applicable for us tech nerds but the "Meisterzwang" is a real obstacle for many people. But aside from that arcane institution there's not really anything forbidding you to start a company. The problem I have with Germany is the time and bureaucratic burden it takes to get a Gmbh up and running. You're looking at a procedure that takes multiple months and visits at a notary office for the paperwork. Compare that to the UK where all you have to do is log into a website and fill out a form to have your Ltd up and running.
- harrytuttle 13y ago
  Agree with UK. It's generally a good idea to start a limited company for even minor ventures as it insulates you from any direct liability from fuckups and legal problems. I've had 4 limited companies over the years.
rmc 13y ago
It's quite funny because the German steryotype in UK is of effeciency and things working. Just shows how steryotypes can be wrong/
jk4930 13y ago
Actually it's a filter, keeping those away from doing business who aren't able to handle little annoyances. I often hear people complain about (German) bureaucrazy and funding difficulties and they say "I just want to do X". But the bitter truth is: If one isn't able to overcome those barriers, they'll probably won't handle their business at all if they can't manage the many little annoyances that don't have to do with X but will occur while doing business. At first my answer was meant to be a joke, but the longer I think about it... :) The good news are: Since you seem to be able to manage those barriers, you're fine and can care about doing X.
- cLeEOGPw 13y ago
  The market should decide if the person can or can not handle his business, not some artificial barriers. What do they achieve exactly? This filtering is pointless and prove nothing. It's like giving a crossword when hiring a factory worker - if you are unable to solve the crossword, you might be unable to handle minor annoyances in the factory.
  - jk4930 13y ago
    C'mon, I somehow have to put a higher meaning into those barriers. I've to rationalize the pain, it's a coping mechanism. :)

brador 13y ago

Why not start the company in the UK and just run it from Germany? It's all in the EU, right?

junto 13y ago
I'm fairly sure that under German rules such a company (single director, Germany based) would be treated as German. Thus all taxes would need to be paid in Germany. You'd have double accounting, and have to file (manually) null accounts in the UK to satisfy Companies House, and file actual accounts in Germany. Royal pain in the ass.
kybernetyk 13y ago
Well, when I'm living in Germany I still have to register the branch of the Ltd here. And I still have to register with the Handelsregister, put up with the IHK and the stupendous tax system. A Ltd. doesn't really have any advantage in that scenario besides fast incorporation times.

UK-AL 13y ago

It's because the UK is Entrepreneurial. No body bats an eyelid if a 16 year old starts a company in the UK. It's normal. In Germany, your meant to have the correct education, certificates, and experience before your own company. There's tons of red tape.

patrickg 13y ago
Huh? What stops anybody from registering a company at the Handelsregister and start working? Who needs a certificate and a proof of experience? Or do you mean society enforces it?
- junto 13y ago
  Depends on what kind of company GmbH costs about 25,000 EUR to setup. You don't get that money back.
  - patrickg 13y ago
    1) You can run UG which starts at 1 EUR (+ 100-200 Euro for bureaucracy). 2) It is your money to spend. You never give it to anybody else. So "you don't get that money back" is completely incorrect.
    - kybernetyk 13y ago
      The UG is a step in the right direction. Though they half assed it a little. You get a gmbh-lite but have to put up with the full administrative burden. That and the name suffix: "<my company> UG (haftunsgbeschraenkt)". Internationally no one knows what a UG is. Doesn't really matter for a local bakery but if you're running an international software business it becomes at least a little important. > 2) It is your money to spend. Actually it's your company's money to spend. So "you don't get it back" is partially correct ;)
- UK-AL 13y ago
  Both. In certain trades, you can only start on your own if you get to a to certain level of certification.
  - patrickg 13y ago
    But in most trades you can just start.
- kybernetyk 13y ago
  > Huh? What stops anybody from registering a company at the Handelsregister and start working? Maybe not really applicable for us tech nerds but the "Meisterzwang" is a real obstacle for many people. But aside from that arcane institution there's not really anything forbidding you to start a company. The problem I have with Germany is the time and bureaucratic burden it takes to get a Gmbh up and running. You're looking at a procedure that takes multiple months and visits at a notary office for the paperwork. Compare that to the UK where all you have to do is log into a website and fill out a form to have your Ltd up and running.
harrytuttle 13y ago
Agree with UK. It's generally a good idea to start a limited company for even minor ventures as it insulates you from any direct liability from fuckups and legal problems. I've had 4 limited companies over the years.

rmc 13y ago

It's quite funny because the German steryotype in UK is of effeciency and things working. Just shows how steryotypes can be wrong/

jk4930 13y ago

Actually it's a filter, keeping those away from doing business who aren't able to handle little annoyances. I often hear people complain about (German) bureaucrazy and funding difficulties and they say "I just want to do X". But the bitter truth is: If one isn't able to overcome those barriers, they'll probably won't handle their business at all if they can't manage the many little annoyances that don't have to do with X but will occur while doing business. At first my answer was meant to be a joke, but the longer I think about it... :) The good news are: Since you seem to be able to manage those barriers, you're fine and can care about doing X.

cLeEOGPw 13y ago
The market should decide if the person can or can not handle his business, not some artificial barriers. What do they achieve exactly? This filtering is pointless and prove nothing. It's like giving a crossword when hiring a factory worker - if you are unable to solve the crossword, you might be unable to handle minor annoyances in the factory.
- jk4930 13y ago
  C'mon, I somehow have to put a higher meaning into those barriers. I've to rationalize the pain, it's a coping mechanism. :)