4 ms·

What? Copenhagen alone has thousands of homeless people. And what makes you think that people choose to be homeless?

venus 13y ago
I'm no expert on Denmark but I bet that Copenhagen's homeless issues are a mix of lack of resources and a politically correct unwillingness to forcibly detain people who really should be placed into care (chronic alcoholism, mental disease, drugs). That is perhaps what the parent meant by "choosing" to be homeless: substance abuse/mental health cases who opt out of the system to pursue their addictions. No point arguing about the definition of "choose". America's situation is different; they have an idealogical opposition to social welfare and there is no system to opt out of. The homeless situation in SF is far worse than in any EU city I know of.
- bluedino 13y ago
  >> The homeless situation in SF is far worse than in any EU city I know of. I don't know if I'd really call it a situation. Homeless people choose to go to SF because it's one of the best places for them. You won't freeze sleeping on the street, plenty of handouts...
  - venus 13y ago
    I'd imagine the main reason is that SF is walkable - not only for the homeless themselves, but also for the targets of their begging activity. The weather is liveable, I suppose, but LA's is better - if that's all it was, they'd be in LA, but LA's much more car-based. Anyway, whatever the reason, I think it is actually a "situation". Many cities have homeless problems, but SF's is amazingly in your face. Most SF people I know would simply not walk through Tenderloin at any time, even in broad daylight. It's in the middle of the freaking city! That is not normal.
    - simoncion 13y ago
      People who won't walk through the TL have over-active imaginations. The TL has an over-hyped reputation.
      - pessimizer 13y ago
        Or rather a reputation that lags reality by 20 years or so. It isn't cheap enough to exist in the tenderloin for it to be as bad as it once was.
        simoncion 13y ago
        Tell me about it. I've only been in the TL for three years or so, but I've spent the majority of that time wondering how regular working-class families with kids can afford to live in the area. I can't imagine how street-level pushers or prostitutes make rent. Maybe they rent places out in Hunters Point or Outer Sunset?
        coolsunglasses 13y ago
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_room_occupancy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_room_occupancy
        simoncion 13y ago
        Hmm. So, these things are frequently run as subsidized housing projects. Good to know. Thanks for the link.
  - mortehu 13y ago
    Apparently, a lot of them are there because of lack of treatment for their mental illnesses: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-everyman-psychiatrist/201009/san-franciscos-homeless-mentally-ill-still-neglected http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-everyman-psychiatris... I recently lived in the Tenderloin for six months, and my impression was the the majority of the chronically homeless there are crazy.
    - bluedino 13y ago
      Right, but in say Union Square most of the homeless aren't crazy. The Tenderloin is full of people who just walk around talking to themselves or a wall and will follow you around screaming at you. Union square has a lot more alcoholics and drug users, and 'talented' homeless people like street performers and pick-pockets. They may have some minor issues but they're clearly there by choice.
- bluekeybox 13y ago
  Ever been to Brussels? I hear it's worse than SF in some aspects.
  - venus 13y ago
    Not for a while, but I've heard the same thing. Like Copenhagen I believe it is extremely intermingled with substance addiction problems, especially alcohol. It's a hard nut to crack, that's for sure.
the_rosentotter 13y ago
I have lived in Copenhagen my entire life. I know of one homeless person that I see regularly in the street. During the course of a year, I see a person sleeping rough probably five times, same for meeting a street beggar. If you are a legal resident you will be offered a place to live, as well as money to survive, if you have the wherewithal to go to the social services. The ones who don't use this are usually mentally ill or too deep into substance abuse of one sort or another. The thousands you are talking about are probably illegal aliens, who are obviously not offered the same services that residents enjoy. Can't really blame Copenhagen that thousands of people without resources or prospects stream into the city from other countries. In either case, they all reside in government or privately run shelters with beds and meals available, which is I guess is why we don't see them in the street the way you do in New York and San Francisco.

venus 13y ago

I'm no expert on Denmark but I bet that Copenhagen's homeless issues are a mix of lack of resources and a politically correct unwillingness to forcibly detain people who really should be placed into care (chronic alcoholism, mental disease, drugs). That is perhaps what the parent meant by "choosing" to be homeless: substance abuse/mental health cases who opt out of the system to pursue their addictions. No point arguing about the definition of "choose". America's situation is different; they have an idealogical opposition to social welfare and there is no system to opt out of. The homeless situation in SF is far worse than in any EU city I know of.

bluedino 13y ago
>> The homeless situation in SF is far worse than in any EU city I know of. I don't know if I'd really call it a situation. Homeless people choose to go to SF because it's one of the best places for them. You won't freeze sleeping on the street, plenty of handouts...
- venus 13y ago
  I'd imagine the main reason is that SF is walkable - not only for the homeless themselves, but also for the targets of their begging activity. The weather is liveable, I suppose, but LA's is better - if that's all it was, they'd be in LA, but LA's much more car-based. Anyway, whatever the reason, I think it is actually a "situation". Many cities have homeless problems, but SF's is amazingly in your face. Most SF people I know would simply not walk through Tenderloin at any time, even in broad daylight. It's in the middle of the freaking city! That is not normal.
  - simoncion 13y ago
    People who won't walk through the TL have over-active imaginations. The TL has an over-hyped reputation.
    - pessimizer 13y ago
      Or rather a reputation that lags reality by 20 years or so. It isn't cheap enough to exist in the tenderloin for it to be as bad as it once was.
      - simoncion 13y ago
        Tell me about it. I've only been in the TL for three years or so, but I've spent the majority of that time wondering how regular working-class families with kids can afford to live in the area. I can't imagine how street-level pushers or prostitutes make rent. Maybe they rent places out in Hunters Point or Outer Sunset?
        coolsunglasses 13y ago
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_room_occupancy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_room_occupancy
        simoncion 13y ago
        Hmm. So, these things are frequently run as subsidized housing projects. Good to know. Thanks for the link.
- mortehu 13y ago
  Apparently, a lot of them are there because of lack of treatment for their mental illnesses: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-everyman-psychiatrist/201009/san-franciscos-homeless-mentally-ill-still-neglected http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-everyman-psychiatris... I recently lived in the Tenderloin for six months, and my impression was the the majority of the chronically homeless there are crazy.
  - bluedino 13y ago
    Right, but in say Union Square most of the homeless aren't crazy. The Tenderloin is full of people who just walk around talking to themselves or a wall and will follow you around screaming at you. Union square has a lot more alcoholics and drug users, and 'talented' homeless people like street performers and pick-pockets. They may have some minor issues but they're clearly there by choice.
bluekeybox 13y ago
Ever been to Brussels? I hear it's worse than SF in some aspects.
- venus 13y ago
  Not for a while, but I've heard the same thing. Like Copenhagen I believe it is extremely intermingled with substance addiction problems, especially alcohol. It's a hard nut to crack, that's for sure.

the_rosentotter 13y ago

I have lived in Copenhagen my entire life. I know of one homeless person that I see regularly in the street. During the course of a year, I see a person sleeping rough probably five times, same for meeting a street beggar. If you are a legal resident you will be offered a place to live, as well as money to survive, if you have the wherewithal to go to the social services. The ones who don't use this are usually mentally ill or too deep into substance abuse of one sort or another. The thousands you are talking about are probably illegal aliens, who are obviously not offered the same services that residents enjoy. Can't really blame Copenhagen that thousands of people without resources or prospects stream into the city from other countries. In either case, they all reside in government or privately run shelters with beds and meals available, which is I guess is why we don't see them in the street the way you do in New York and San Francisco.