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> The police were not involved until after the plaintiff fell through the skylight. The plaintiff was committing a crime. He needed to elude the police. When h

by lutusp 13y ago

> The police were not involved until after the plaintiff fell through the skylight. The plaintiff was committing a crime. He needed to elude the police. When he fell, he was located where he was in order to avoid observation and arrest. > I disagree. The commission of a crime should not automatically revalue one's life and health to $0. Now that you're making my arguments for me, I think we're done here.

dalke 13y ago
What I ask for is primary information. Everything I've found has been secondary or tertiary. You write 'He needed to elude the police.' According to sources I read, he fell through the roof, his friends broke into the gym to help him, he was breathing but unconscious, his friends called the fire department, and the police arrived soon after. Since you say that he was "eluding the police" or "escaping the police", and the information I have found says that the police were not involved until after fire/rescue arrived, I assume that you have better information about the case than I have been able to find. (Or do you mean that all criminals elude the police until they are caught? If so, then your use of "elude" and "escaping" is atypical and confusing, and has almost no real meaning.) "Now that you're making my arguments for me" I have no idea of what you are talking about. I don't understand your argument enough to make it or counter it. Your statements are vague enough that I can't make sense of them, and when I ask for clarification and details, you make an uninterpretable reply. I can only conclude that you don't care to understand and discuss the topic. Instead, you seem to repeat worn-down anecdotes about this case which have been repeated for 30+ years. Since then, California law was changed for the express reason to make it harder for criminals to make these sorts of legal claims. Were those changes not enough? And if not, why not? What would the law need to be in order for you to be happy?
- lutusp 13y ago
  > Since you say that he was "eluding the police" or "escaping the police", and the information I have found says that the police were not involved until after fire/rescue arrived, I assume that you have better information about the case than I have been able to find. You're conveniently overlooking the fact that he was on the roof, a pointless activity were it not for his desire to avoid detection. Does a person proactively make choices to avoid cancer even when no cancer is present? Yes or no?
  - dalke 13y ago
    In the account I read, he was on the roof because he wanted to steal a light fixture which was on the roof. Previously that evening they had tried, and failed, to steal a floodlight from the school’s tennis courts. There was nothing about the man trying specifically to avoid detection any more than any other criminal would not want to be caught. Certainly the police were not at the school. This leads me to believe we are not talking about the same incident. I quickly found several cases where someone fell through a skylight. For recent examples: - "A 17-year-old teenager “clowning around” on the roof of Dwight D. Eisenhower Middle School fell through a skylight Sunday night, police said." http://www.nj.com/monmouth/index.ssf/2013/07/teen_hospitalized_after_falling_through_skylight_of_freehold_middle_school.html http://www.nj.com/monmouth/index.ssf/2013/07/teen_hospitaliz... - "A teenage boy suffered heavy bleeding injuries Friday night after falling 15 feet through a glass skylight on the roof of a Mill Valley funeral facility, a fire official said." http://www.marinij.com/ci_23653365/boy-injured-fall-through-skylight-at-mill-valley http://www.marinij.com/ci_23653365/boy-injured-fall-through-... - "A teen was seriously hurt Monday after falling through a skylight at Taylor Middle School" http://www.koat.com/news/new-mexico/albuquerque/Teen-falls-through-middle-school-skylight/-/9153728/18976122/-/5muy2dz/-/index.html http://www.koat.com/news/new-mexico/albuquerque/Teen-falls-t... - "Police identified 15-year-old Kimberley Ferris as the teen who died Tuesday after falling through a Dakota Middle School skylight" http://rapidcityjournal.com/news/police-identify-teen-who-died-after-fall-through-dakota-middle/article_7edfbac2-b7e9-11e0-8b13-001cc4c002e0.html http://rapidcityjournal.com/news/police-identify-teen-who-di... These reasons for being on a roof seem to be even more pointless than stealing a floodlight, and yet they were on the roof, and were not trying to escape or evade the police. I tentatively conclude that you really don't know the details and have been passing along stories you heard. As with any friend-of-a-friend stories, these are liable to be very different than what actually happened. I similarly conclude that you believe in the truthiness of your account, even if the truth is somewhere else. However, the laws have changed since Bodine v. Enterprise High School was filed, while beliefs based on echos of that case are stuck in the Reagen era. I don't understand your cancer reference. The answer is "yes" for some people, "no" for others, and "irrelevant" for still others. Some people actively pursue cigarette smoking, with its increased chance of cancer. Others choose diets which they think will help prevent cancer. Still others know nothing about cancer, or let it be in God's or Fate's hands.

by lutusp 13y ago

dalke 13y ago

What I ask for is primary information. Everything I've found has been secondary or tertiary. You write 'He needed to elude the police.' According to sources I read, he fell through the roof, his friends broke into the gym to help him, he was breathing but unconscious, his friends called the fire department, and the police arrived soon after. Since you say that he was "eluding the police" or "escaping the police", and the information I have found says that the police were not involved until after fire/rescue arrived, I assume that you have better information about the case than I have been able to find. (Or do you mean that all criminals elude the police until they are caught? If so, then your use of "elude" and "escaping" is atypical and confusing, and has almost no real meaning.) "Now that you're making my arguments for me" I have no idea of what you are talking about. I don't understand your argument enough to make it or counter it. Your statements are vague enough that I can't make sense of them, and when I ask for clarification and details, you make an uninterpretable reply. I can only conclude that you don't care to understand and discuss the topic. Instead, you seem to repeat worn-down anecdotes about this case which have been repeated for 30+ years. Since then, California law was changed for the express reason to make it harder for criminals to make these sorts of legal claims. Were those changes not enough? And if not, why not? What would the law need to be in order for you to be happy?

lutusp 13y ago
> Since you say that he was "eluding the police" or "escaping the police", and the information I have found says that the police were not involved until after fire/rescue arrived, I assume that you have better information about the case than I have been able to find. You're conveniently overlooking the fact that he was on the roof, a pointless activity were it not for his desire to avoid detection. Does a person proactively make choices to avoid cancer even when no cancer is present? Yes or no?
- dalke 13y ago
  In the account I read, he was on the roof because he wanted to steal a light fixture which was on the roof. Previously that evening they had tried, and failed, to steal a floodlight from the school’s tennis courts. There was nothing about the man trying specifically to avoid detection any more than any other criminal would not want to be caught. Certainly the police were not at the school. This leads me to believe we are not talking about the same incident. I quickly found several cases where someone fell through a skylight. For recent examples: - "A 17-year-old teenager “clowning around” on the roof of Dwight D. Eisenhower Middle School fell through a skylight Sunday night, police said." http://www.nj.com/monmouth/index.ssf/2013/07/teen_hospitalized_after_falling_through_skylight_of_freehold_middle_school.html http://www.nj.com/monmouth/index.ssf/2013/07/teen_hospitaliz... - "A teenage boy suffered heavy bleeding injuries Friday night after falling 15 feet through a glass skylight on the roof of a Mill Valley funeral facility, a fire official said." http://www.marinij.com/ci_23653365/boy-injured-fall-through-skylight-at-mill-valley http://www.marinij.com/ci_23653365/boy-injured-fall-through-... - "A teen was seriously hurt Monday after falling through a skylight at Taylor Middle School" http://www.koat.com/news/new-mexico/albuquerque/Teen-falls-through-middle-school-skylight/-/9153728/18976122/-/5muy2dz/-/index.html http://www.koat.com/news/new-mexico/albuquerque/Teen-falls-t... - "Police identified 15-year-old Kimberley Ferris as the teen who died Tuesday after falling through a Dakota Middle School skylight" http://rapidcityjournal.com/news/police-identify-teen-who-died-after-fall-through-dakota-middle/article_7edfbac2-b7e9-11e0-8b13-001cc4c002e0.html http://rapidcityjournal.com/news/police-identify-teen-who-di... These reasons for being on a roof seem to be even more pointless than stealing a floodlight, and yet they were on the roof, and were not trying to escape or evade the police. I tentatively conclude that you really don't know the details and have been passing along stories you heard. As with any friend-of-a-friend stories, these are liable to be very different than what actually happened. I similarly conclude that you believe in the truthiness of your account, even if the truth is somewhere else. However, the laws have changed since Bodine v. Enterprise High School was filed, while beliefs based on echos of that case are stuck in the Reagen era. I don't understand your cancer reference. The answer is "yes" for some people, "no" for others, and "irrelevant" for still others. Some people actively pursue cigarette smoking, with its increased chance of cancer. Others choose diets which they think will help prevent cancer. Still others know nothing about cancer, or let it be in God's or Fate's hands.