5 ms·

Been there, done that. The industry and market-base is still way too fractured. One of the biggest limiting factors is that in order to be very useful and fun

by brk 17y ago

Been there, done that. The industry and market-base is still way too fractured. One of the biggest limiting factors is that in order to be very useful and functional, there has to be a moderate degree of programmability in the device that is acting as the server/controller for the home. This limits the effective market to geeks and tinkerers, who are also the most common build-vs-buy crowd. Homeowners, in the general sense, do not want to pay monthly fees for service and are leery of installing a system that controls their home that they feel they have little or no personal control or understanding of. Where the HA industry has seen some decent business is in specialized lighting and HVAC control systems.

herval 17y ago
with the current tendency of cheaper and cheaper netbooks (and small cpus in general), I guess programmability is quite attainable, no? BTW, what do you think of the microsoft home initiative?
- brk 17y ago
  The programmability of the systems has always been attainable. Even back in 1995 when I got started in HA there were several choices for relatively cheap/flexible controllers. The problem has been that the stereotypical homeowner does NOT want to program anything. VCR's blinking "12:00" was the joke of the 90's, and the concept is still true today, even if VCR's don't really exist anymore. Can you imagine the average person wanting to program an HA system? Telling it when to turn lights on and off, how to factor in shifting sunrise/sunset times, occupancy sensors and the like? It's very very difficult to make a system that is both powerful and simple, unless you break it down to a very very basic function. Most people would love an automated home experience, but the setup is daunting. Especially when you consider all the edge cases... Turn on the interior lights at 30 minutes before dusk, but not if we're away or out. Shut off the HVAC system or zone if a window is open, unless the door to that room is closed or the humidity is very high (like in a bathroom), and so on. I have personally found that if you don't carry the system logic far enough, it is just annoying and perceived as "stupid". In order to make the system very intelligent it needs to be rather complex and incorporate a lot of environmental (temperature, humidity, occupancy, seasonal, etc) inputs. Heave on top of all that there is no one system that covers all the basic sub-functions really well: - Phone - Security - Lighting - HVAC - Irrigation - A/V (multi-room or single room). - User Interface (remote controls, keypads, input/control panels, etc.). There are a some systems that do a couple of these well. HAI OmniPro alarm systems do a pretty good job with security, HVAC and lighting. Their audio is passable, but not great, and their irrigation is kind of lacking. The JDS Stargate is kind of outdated, but does a good job with lighting and basic I/O (relays, TTL inputs, etc.). It has no security, but integrates with Interlogix alarm panels. But, you pretty much have to program both devices independently. Russound makes great multi-room audio, and they have a robust serial interface, but not much direct plug-and-play capabilities. All of the various sub-systems seem to almost, but not quite, talk to each other. I've personally moved to an OSX based system (Indigo) and do apple-scripting to handle a lot of things. In the past, I had a JDS Stargage, HAI OmniPro, and PC running an application I wrote to handle email, web and IM interfacing to the Internet, plus some PIC-based stuff I build for other one-off sensors and interfaces to things. My stuff works well, and most people can use and understand it, but this is the result of no small bit of effort and many custom bits... Not exactly joe-consumer friendly. As for MS-home, they've been in and out of this space for 10 years. I don't expect much from them, and like most of their solutions, I find the approach too closed.
dag 17y ago
I used to install automation and A/V equipment in boardrooms. I'm curious, do home users go for automated blinds, room lighting, or TV controls?
- russell 17y ago
  The short answer is no. This stuff has been around for 40-50 years and you dont see it in homes. The few things that homeowners do care about have special purpose controllers: heating, irrigation, perimeter lighting. I see no need to fire up my computer to turn on the furnace when I can walk over to the thermostat. If I want really fancy control, I buy a really fancy thermostat. My coffee maker has a timer, so if I want coffee at 7am, I can set it. At the same time I can check the coffee and the water level. Computer control would buy me nothing since I still have to check the coffee and water. The one time I thought about controls was when I had to replace a leaking skylight in a cathedral ceiling. I could do it myself for $300-400 or I could get one with electrical controls plus a carpenter plus an electrician for $1500-2000. I went with DYI and a long pole to open and close it.
- brk 17y ago
  The ones interested in home automation do. Blinds are probably the least common, but the fact that you can get IR controls for your blinds on products you buy at Home Depot gives you some indication that there ARE people buying these things. The problem comes from trying to integrate the 3 things you mentioned, as an example. If I am going to watch a movie on TV, I probably want to control the blinds and turn the lights down or off. If your blinds are IR controlled, instead of a keypad and/or RF control, you have a decent probability of being able to turn on the TV and close the blinds, as long as the IR target for the blinds is close enough to the TV so that the user holding the remote control doesn't have to wave it around the room. But, there really aren't any lighting controls with direct IR interfaces, and very very few multi-remotes have IR libraries for automation devices. So, you need to install the room lighting, setup an IR interface, most likely either program the remote or the IR interface so that one can interact with the other, and then setup a macro on the TV remote. Most people would rather just do things manually.

by brk 17y ago

herval 17y ago

with the current tendency of cheaper and cheaper netbooks (and small cpus in general), I guess programmability is quite attainable, no? BTW, what do you think of the microsoft home initiative?

brk 17y ago
The programmability of the systems has always been attainable. Even back in 1995 when I got started in HA there were several choices for relatively cheap/flexible controllers. The problem has been that the stereotypical homeowner does NOT want to program anything. VCR's blinking "12:00" was the joke of the 90's, and the concept is still true today, even if VCR's don't really exist anymore. Can you imagine the average person wanting to program an HA system? Telling it when to turn lights on and off, how to factor in shifting sunrise/sunset times, occupancy sensors and the like? It's very very difficult to make a system that is both powerful and simple, unless you break it down to a very very basic function. Most people would love an automated home experience, but the setup is daunting. Especially when you consider all the edge cases... Turn on the interior lights at 30 minutes before dusk, but not if we're away or out. Shut off the HVAC system or zone if a window is open, unless the door to that room is closed or the humidity is very high (like in a bathroom), and so on. I have personally found that if you don't carry the system logic far enough, it is just annoying and perceived as "stupid". In order to make the system very intelligent it needs to be rather complex and incorporate a lot of environmental (temperature, humidity, occupancy, seasonal, etc) inputs. Heave on top of all that there is no one system that covers all the basic sub-functions really well: - Phone - Security - Lighting - HVAC - Irrigation - A/V (multi-room or single room). - User Interface (remote controls, keypads, input/control panels, etc.). There are a some systems that do a couple of these well. HAI OmniPro alarm systems do a pretty good job with security, HVAC and lighting. Their audio is passable, but not great, and their irrigation is kind of lacking. The JDS Stargate is kind of outdated, but does a good job with lighting and basic I/O (relays, TTL inputs, etc.). It has no security, but integrates with Interlogix alarm panels. But, you pretty much have to program both devices independently. Russound makes great multi-room audio, and they have a robust serial interface, but not much direct plug-and-play capabilities. All of the various sub-systems seem to almost, but not quite, talk to each other. I've personally moved to an OSX based system (Indigo) and do apple-scripting to handle a lot of things. In the past, I had a JDS Stargage, HAI OmniPro, and PC running an application I wrote to handle email, web and IM interfacing to the Internet, plus some PIC-based stuff I build for other one-off sensors and interfaces to things. My stuff works well, and most people can use and understand it, but this is the result of no small bit of effort and many custom bits... Not exactly joe-consumer friendly. As for MS-home, they've been in and out of this space for 10 years. I don't expect much from them, and like most of their solutions, I find the approach too closed.

dag 17y ago

I used to install automation and A/V equipment in boardrooms. I'm curious, do home users go for automated blinds, room lighting, or TV controls?

russell 17y ago
The short answer is no. This stuff has been around for 40-50 years and you dont see it in homes. The few things that homeowners do care about have special purpose controllers: heating, irrigation, perimeter lighting. I see no need to fire up my computer to turn on the furnace when I can walk over to the thermostat. If I want really fancy control, I buy a really fancy thermostat. My coffee maker has a timer, so if I want coffee at 7am, I can set it. At the same time I can check the coffee and the water level. Computer control would buy me nothing since I still have to check the coffee and water. The one time I thought about controls was when I had to replace a leaking skylight in a cathedral ceiling. I could do it myself for $300-400 or I could get one with electrical controls plus a carpenter plus an electrician for $1500-2000. I went with DYI and a long pole to open and close it.
brk 17y ago
The ones interested in home automation do. Blinds are probably the least common, but the fact that you can get IR controls for your blinds on products you buy at Home Depot gives you some indication that there ARE people buying these things. The problem comes from trying to integrate the 3 things you mentioned, as an example. If I am going to watch a movie on TV, I probably want to control the blinds and turn the lights down or off. If your blinds are IR controlled, instead of a keypad and/or RF control, you have a decent probability of being able to turn on the TV and close the blinds, as long as the IR target for the blinds is close enough to the TV so that the user holding the remote control doesn't have to wave it around the room. But, there really aren't any lighting controls with direct IR interfaces, and very very few multi-remotes have IR libraries for automation devices. So, you need to install the room lighting, setup an IR interface, most likely either program the remote or the IR interface so that one can interact with the other, and then setup a macro on the TV remote. Most people would rather just do things manually.