4 ms·

I think some of the folks here are casting aspersions on the folks arguing with PG - there are some reasonable arguments in there. PG's stance (my interpretati

by sriramk 13y ago

I think some of the folks here are casting aspersions on the folks arguing with PG - there are some reasonable arguments in there. PG's stance (my interpretation) is - (1) Founders need to sell to be effective and (2) Having a strong accent makes it hard to communicate effectively and in turn, sell. I get that (I have an accent myself). People are objecting to the underlying assumption that this causation is something we deem acceptable. Here's a counter example. (1) Founders need to sell (2) Part of selling is to make the audience identify with you, so founders who look/act like their audience do better. This suddenly becomes a slippery slope, even if that's a perfectly logical argument. tldr: (Correlation or causation) != acceptable.

lumens 13y ago
Regarding your counter example: "Part of selling is to make the audience identify with you..." This is distinctly not what you're trying to do. Part of selling is helping your audience understand that you identify with them, and you don't need to look/act like them to do it. Also, I do think this correlation is "acceptable" (though admittedly I'm saying this as a person with minimal discernible american english accent). It's important when competing at a high level to play to your strengths. English not a strength? Go raise money/operate somewhere else, or work on it until it becomes a strength. Language is a tool in your belt just like someones ability to write code. No one expects to be able to play Major League Baseball if they can't hit a 90mph fastball.
ekanes 13y ago
It's an interesting point, what you're saying is that theoretically "be more white" is something that would make logical sense (while being repulsive). A big difference though is you can't change what you look like (which is why racism is so disgusting) -- but you can change how you speak. So his advice is quite practical: Work on your English.
- sriramk 13y ago
  Agreed - this is pragmatic advice. It definitely works on an individual level. But if this is something acceptable to go work on yourself, from the other side of the table, does it automatically become ok to judge people on? There's a logical inconsistency between saying a) Don't judge people on their accents, listen to the message and b) Fix your accent. To pg's credit I think he frames this purely on efficacy of communication ( it's similar to typing out better phrased emails) but that ignores the other reasons people with accents get judged.
- wildgift 13y ago
  I grew up in a part of California where many Chinese businesspersons entered and started businesses. Many of these businesses would hire a white man to do some sales. This was generally within communities where white people rarely exceeded 30% of the population. In many, whites made up less than 10%. It was mostly a Mexican American and Asian area. The reason why was obvious. The local business operators, who were mostly older white people, didn't want to buy from a Chinese person. Asian guys I knew were resentful. Not only was it racist to do that, but the whole situation was racist. It was a racist response to a racist situation, and it made racism seem hopeless. As far as accents went, we didn't have them, by and large, unless one was an immigrant. The most common accent was a Chicano English accent.

by sriramk 13y ago

lumens 13y ago

Regarding your counter example: "Part of selling is to make the audience identify with you..." This is distinctly not what you're trying to do. Part of selling is helping your audience understand that you identify with them, and you don't need to look/act like them to do it. Also, I do think this correlation is "acceptable" (though admittedly I'm saying this as a person with minimal discernible american english accent). It's important when competing at a high level to play to your strengths. English not a strength? Go raise money/operate somewhere else, or work on it until it becomes a strength. Language is a tool in your belt just like someones ability to write code. No one expects to be able to play Major League Baseball if they can't hit a 90mph fastball.

ekanes 13y ago

It's an interesting point, what you're saying is that theoretically "be more white" is something that would make logical sense (while being repulsive). A big difference though is you can't change what you look like (which is why racism is so disgusting) -- but you can change how you speak. So his advice is quite practical: Work on your English.

sriramk 13y ago
Agreed - this is pragmatic advice. It definitely works on an individual level. But if this is something acceptable to go work on yourself, from the other side of the table, does it automatically become ok to judge people on? There's a logical inconsistency between saying a) Don't judge people on their accents, listen to the message and b) Fix your accent. To pg's credit I think he frames this purely on efficacy of communication ( it's similar to typing out better phrased emails) but that ignores the other reasons people with accents get judged.
wildgift 13y ago
I grew up in a part of California where many Chinese businesspersons entered and started businesses. Many of these businesses would hire a white man to do some sales. This was generally within communities where white people rarely exceeded 30% of the population. In many, whites made up less than 10%. It was mostly a Mexican American and Asian area. The reason why was obvious. The local business operators, who were mostly older white people, didn't want to buy from a Chinese person. Asian guys I knew were resentful. Not only was it racist to do that, but the whole situation was racist. It was a racist response to a racist situation, and it made racism seem hopeless. As far as accents went, we didn't have them, by and large, unless one was an immigrant. The most common accent was a Chicano English accent.