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It seems to me that the only way to bring about real policy change in the US is to organize politically. If you can deliver votes in November, then you can get

It seems to me that the only way to bring about real policy change in the US is to organize politically. If you can deliver votes in November, then you can get things done. Part of the problem is that other than the EFF and ACLU, there isn't really a "privacy lobby" in the US. And neither of these organizations are effective in shaping election outcomes. What is needed is something like the 2nd-ammendment lobby or the "Family Values" lobby--one that not only talks about policy, but one which also rewards allies and penalizes enemies at the ballot box. The way that the NRA and the Christian Coalition do it is through grass-roots organizing, and a massive donor base that they basically direct in a centralized manner, which puts them in an unassailable negotiating position on Capital Hill.

hga 13y ago
Don't look at the "Family Values" lobby, they get lip service but no serious favorable actions in return for their votes. One reason they're fading away (the main other one is that Carter's attacks on their schools are a distant memory). The concept of the applying the lessons of the 2nd Amendment lobby was extensively discussed here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6185138 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6185138 Here's the contents of my top comment, which I think frames the concept well: "Until we have specific, actual, real privacy atrocities I can't see this effort getting the traction of any of the groups you've specified. Labor had company towns and less but still specifically abusive employers, with plenty of specific people maimed or killed in unsafe workplaces or labor actions. Environmentalists had deformed children from Japanese industrial mercury dumping, and, oh, the Cuyahoga River catching on fire. Gun grabbers have killed, maimed, or otherwise grossly abused thousands of people and that continues to this day. "What specific incidents, with victims most will empathize with, can the privacy effort point to?"
- pkinsky 13y ago
  Martin Luther King was spied on and blackmailed by the FBI. It's a bit dated, but a good place to start. http://news.firedoglake.com/2013/01/21/the-fbi-wrote-a-letter-to-martin-luther-king-telling-him-to-commit-suicide/ http://news.firedoglake.com/2013/01/21/the-fbi-wrote-a-lette...
  - hga 13y ago
    Oh, there's a whole bunch of pre-Church Committee, especially J. Edgar Hoover (died a few years before the former) ... incidents, but the current authorities can and will say they aren't like those abusive folks 4 decades ago. And in e.g. the case of MLK they were famously unsuccessful. I claim you need atrocities committed upon "victims most will empathize with"; the latter excludes "rioting hippies" and the like, especially after the Weather Underground and company started bombing and killing people. E.g. I was just past the threshold of becoming politically aware when this happened: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterling_Hall_bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterling_Hall_bombing and it shocked and appalled the nation.
    - rdl 13y ago
      It's interesting what external events are formative. For me, it was the SSC being cancelled (thus, wanting to be in private business and then funding science vs. government-funded big science at risk always to Congress), the MOVE bombing in a nearby city (learning that even a black mayor can be racist, as well as incompetent), and Challenger ("perfect systems aren't", kind of the Rumsfeld thing).
rdl 13y ago
I think 2A/RKBA, drugs (== black/latino community, generally; white people rarely go to prison for drugs and white/asian communities aren't torn apart by the drug war), and maybe people with garden-variety secrets (cheating on a spouse, cheating on taxes, looking at questionable porn, etc.) are the strongest natural allies in terms of turning out the votes. These are pretty evenly split left/right. Funding could be from cloud providers who are getting screwed; even Google probably loses a marginal $100mm due to this issue, so for them funding a PAC with $25mm would be a rational choice. Plus, being anti-NSA is a great recruiting/retention thing for employees, so any worthwhile tech company could probably justify PAC support just as an HR and marketing expense. You could probably get the tea party side, and civil libertarians in general, for free, but they're not a meaningful political bloc. The problem is at least some of the tea party side would be pro-military and might view support of NSA as supporting the military.

hga 13y ago

Don't look at the "Family Values" lobby, they get lip service but no serious favorable actions in return for their votes. One reason they're fading away (the main other one is that Carter's attacks on their schools are a distant memory). The concept of the applying the lessons of the 2nd Amendment lobby was extensively discussed here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6185138 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6185138 Here's the contents of my top comment, which I think frames the concept well: "Until we have specific, actual, real privacy atrocities I can't see this effort getting the traction of any of the groups you've specified. Labor had company towns and less but still specifically abusive employers, with plenty of specific people maimed or killed in unsafe workplaces or labor actions. Environmentalists had deformed children from Japanese industrial mercury dumping, and, oh, the Cuyahoga River catching on fire. Gun grabbers have killed, maimed, or otherwise grossly abused thousands of people and that continues to this day. "What specific incidents, with victims most will empathize with, can the privacy effort point to?"

pkinsky 13y ago
Martin Luther King was spied on and blackmailed by the FBI. It's a bit dated, but a good place to start. http://news.firedoglake.com/2013/01/21/the-fbi-wrote-a-letter-to-martin-luther-king-telling-him-to-commit-suicide/ http://news.firedoglake.com/2013/01/21/the-fbi-wrote-a-lette...
- hga 13y ago
  Oh, there's a whole bunch of pre-Church Committee, especially J. Edgar Hoover (died a few years before the former) ... incidents, but the current authorities can and will say they aren't like those abusive folks 4 decades ago. And in e.g. the case of MLK they were famously unsuccessful. I claim you need atrocities committed upon "victims most will empathize with"; the latter excludes "rioting hippies" and the like, especially after the Weather Underground and company started bombing and killing people. E.g. I was just past the threshold of becoming politically aware when this happened: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterling_Hall_bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterling_Hall_bombing and it shocked and appalled the nation.
  - rdl 13y ago
    It's interesting what external events are formative. For me, it was the SSC being cancelled (thus, wanting to be in private business and then funding science vs. government-funded big science at risk always to Congress), the MOVE bombing in a nearby city (learning that even a black mayor can be racist, as well as incompetent), and Challenger ("perfect systems aren't", kind of the Rumsfeld thing).

rdl 13y ago

I think 2A/RKBA, drugs (== black/latino community, generally; white people rarely go to prison for drugs and white/asian communities aren't torn apart by the drug war), and maybe people with garden-variety secrets (cheating on a spouse, cheating on taxes, looking at questionable porn, etc.) are the strongest natural allies in terms of turning out the votes. These are pretty evenly split left/right. Funding could be from cloud providers who are getting screwed; even Google probably loses a marginal $100mm due to this issue, so for them funding a PAC with $25mm would be a rational choice. Plus, being anti-NSA is a great recruiting/retention thing for employees, so any worthwhile tech company could probably justify PAC support just as an HR and marketing expense. You could probably get the tea party side, and civil libertarians in general, for free, but they're not a meaningful political bloc. The problem is at least some of the tea party side would be pro-military and might view support of NSA as supporting the military.