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Pronunciation is absolutely a part of spoken language. You could probably make a decent argument that somebody who can't pronounce the spoken word in such a way

Pronunciation is absolutely a part of spoken language. You could probably make a decent argument that somebody who can't pronounce the spoken word in such a way that other people understand them doesn't completely know the language.

cafard 13y ago
The range of accents between native speakers of English even in the US is large now. Sixty and seventy years ago before radio and TV had had time to do their work, the range was even larger.
- unimpressive 13y ago
  >The range of accents between native speakers of English even in the US is large now. Sure, if I plot all the accents in the United States on a graph there's probably a lot of divergence. I would think that the accents that impede understanding are outliers though. (At least among native speakers.)
  - btilly 13y ago
    I can say, from experience, that native Texans and Australians can have difficulties understanding each other. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fChqXqvvmg8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fChqXqvvmg8 for an example that I enjoy of a song, in English by native English speakers, than many English speaking people have trouble understanding. After you've seen the words written down, native English speakers usually can then understand. But if English is a second or third language, then good luck!
    - unimpressive 13y ago
      >I can say, from experience, that native Texans and Australians can have difficulties understanding each other. (On a pedantic note, I did specifically say US accents.) I have to wonder if this is purely caused by pronunciation or other aspects of dialect. After all, the stereotypical Australian 'accent' (Ex. "Shrimp on the barbie") is usually accompanied by more than just a change in pronunciation. Obviously the international case is different than the local one. It's probably more accurate to say that somebody who has trouble getting people who speak a dialect of English to understand them doesn't know the dialect. >See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fChqXqvvmg8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fChqXqvvmg8 for an example that I enjoy of a song, in English by native English speakers, than many English speaking people have trouble understanding. Music is something of a special case. If it weren't, there wouldn't be so many lyrics sites out there to help people who have trouble understanding.
      - btilly 13y ago
        Some dialects are more understandable than others. I miss the Canadian accent that I grew up with. That one is very easy for people all over the world to understand. As for the song, even if you heard it recited, you'd have trouble understanding it. It is in a strong Scots dialect.
    - pessimizer 13y ago
      That song, being written in 1611 and in intentional Scottish dialect, is not a good example.
  - dredmorbius 13y ago
    I've found myself unable to understand a native-born American English speaker within 75 miles of where I was born and raised. Inner-city ghetto dialect can be very difficult to understand. Among educated classes, you'd generally have to get into professional jargon to have similar difficulties (ask a set of biologists, anthropologists, and literary scholars to discuss "starting a culture", for one example).
eshvk 13y ago
I don't know about that. I don't know you from heck but I am prepared to bet that my depth of knowledge of the English tongue is as good as yours ( Presumably you are one of those 'native speakers'). English was the first language I learnt. However, the people around me that spoke it were all non-native speakers. This means that most of the way I picked up words came from books. Again, I was never a child obsessed with phonetics so my pronunciation of things is weird.

cafard 13y ago

The range of accents between native speakers of English even in the US is large now. Sixty and seventy years ago before radio and TV had had time to do their work, the range was even larger.

unimpressive 13y ago
>The range of accents between native speakers of English even in the US is large now. Sure, if I plot all the accents in the United States on a graph there's probably a lot of divergence. I would think that the accents that impede understanding are outliers though. (At least among native speakers.)
- btilly 13y ago
  I can say, from experience, that native Texans and Australians can have difficulties understanding each other. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fChqXqvvmg8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fChqXqvvmg8 for an example that I enjoy of a song, in English by native English speakers, than many English speaking people have trouble understanding. After you've seen the words written down, native English speakers usually can then understand. But if English is a second or third language, then good luck!
  - unimpressive 13y ago
    >I can say, from experience, that native Texans and Australians can have difficulties understanding each other. (On a pedantic note, I did specifically say US accents.) I have to wonder if this is purely caused by pronunciation or other aspects of dialect. After all, the stereotypical Australian 'accent' (Ex. "Shrimp on the barbie") is usually accompanied by more than just a change in pronunciation. Obviously the international case is different than the local one. It's probably more accurate to say that somebody who has trouble getting people who speak a dialect of English to understand them doesn't know the dialect. >See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fChqXqvvmg8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fChqXqvvmg8 for an example that I enjoy of a song, in English by native English speakers, than many English speaking people have trouble understanding. Music is something of a special case. If it weren't, there wouldn't be so many lyrics sites out there to help people who have trouble understanding.
    - btilly 13y ago
      Some dialects are more understandable than others. I miss the Canadian accent that I grew up with. That one is very easy for people all over the world to understand. As for the song, even if you heard it recited, you'd have trouble understanding it. It is in a strong Scots dialect.
  - pessimizer 13y ago
    That song, being written in 1611 and in intentional Scottish dialect, is not a good example.
- dredmorbius 13y ago
  I've found myself unable to understand a native-born American English speaker within 75 miles of where I was born and raised. Inner-city ghetto dialect can be very difficult to understand. Among educated classes, you'd generally have to get into professional jargon to have similar difficulties (ask a set of biologists, anthropologists, and literary scholars to discuss "starting a culture", for one example).

eshvk 13y ago

I don't know about that. I don't know you from heck but I am prepared to bet that my depth of knowledge of the English tongue is as good as yours ( Presumably you are one of those 'native speakers'). English was the first language I learnt. However, the people around me that spoke it were all non-native speakers. This means that most of the way I picked up words came from books. Again, I was never a child obsessed with phonetics so my pronunciation of things is weird.