6 ms·
I agree with a lot of what you're saying but one thing that's always bugged me is how we account for sub-optimal decisions. What I mean is that if I make 60k p
by msandford 13y ago
I agree with a lot of what you're saying but one thing that's always bugged me is how we account for sub-optimal decisions.
What I mean is that if I make 60k per year and I choose to spend very little of it by driving an un-fancy car and cooking all my meals at home and living in a small apartment (perhaps with a roommate) I might be able to save half my net income. Or I could spend nearly all of that income on a bigger place, nicer car and meals out. And then I would potentially be in the exact same mental place as the person in poverty.
What if that gets scaled down to 20k instead of 60k? Is there still nothing I can do to figure out a way to save money? Even if my cognitive load is high due to being poor, which way does causation go? Maybe I consciously decided to live in a bigger place and eat more meals out and as a result I now have more financial worry.
I guess what I'm asking is which way does the causation go? Does being in poverty cause you to become overloaded or does the inability to prioritize well or think under stress cause the poverty? To me this question is neigh impossible to answer because you can't look at a single decision or experiment to determine the outcome.
My naive thinking about this kind of thing is that it's like a betting game. With 50/50 odds you might be up some or down some but in the long run little changes. A hundred $1 bets on a coin toss should leave you with just as much money as you started with. But if the odds change, even just a tiny bit, the outcome of a hundred bets gets really different. Having a slight edge on the house, 51% instead of 50%, can cause you to slowly but surely come ahead of the house. And similarly, going from 50% to 49% can cause you to slowly bleed to death.
Now some math. A 50% chance of winning is the same as a 100% payout. For each win you double your money, for each loss you get nothing. 51% is a 102% payout. 49% is a 98% payout. We'll neglect the notion of a finite bankroll since these are small bets; our bankroll is the full $100.
With 50% odds:
1^100 = 1 so you never make or lose money
With 51% odds:
1.02^100 = 7.24
With 49% odds:
0.98^100 = 0.133
Now of course I don't know how this game would scale to real life. Would a person have only a few chances in a lifetime to make these kinds of "bets" or do you get these chances several times a day? And what is the quantity of the bet? Is it how much I spend, or how much I choose to spend versus my other options of how much to spend?
For example if I feel thirsty I could choose to drink water from a drinking fountain (free) or buy a soda ($2). Is the bet quantity $2 (how much I spend or don't spend) or is it $1 because I either "double my money" (which is to say, I don't spend the $2) or I "lose that bet" buy the soda and spend the $2. I would tend to think it's a $1 bet.
Anyhow I'd love getting some kind of real feedback on the math here rather than just "you're an asshole for not thinking those in poverty are victims"
- Retric 13y agoYour thinking at to low a level, the choices that have real impact are things like: Where should I live? (Buy? Roommates?) What kind of car should I get? (Make? Age?) Sould I learn? (To cook, draw, lisp?) What kind of Heath insurance do I get? (none?) What cellphone plan do I get. What do I do for entertainment? Should I start packing lunch? Each of these can be with 100,000+$ at retirement should I get a soda while at I get gass may be habit forming, but it's got little long term impact. Edit: Getting a Starbucks coffie every day or bringing from home is also one of the 100,000+$ choices but only in terms of the habit not crap I forgot to buy beans what do I do?
- msandford 13y agoI was trying to give a single example that fit within the framework of small decisions, but yes there are definitely bigger decisions too. I would argue that the soda vs water is easily worth $100k at retirement. Two times a day a person might make that choice. That's $4 a day, 365 days a year or $1460. Or $43,800 after 30 years. Once you add in some kind of compounding interest (I know there is very little yield available these days, but that's not the norm) you can easily hit $100k. I guess part of my thinking is that it's not even JUST the big decisions that a person makes, but ALL the decisions they make. You can come out ahead on any/all of them and the effects are cumulative.
- khuey 13y agoProbably worth a lot more than $100k once you look at the effect 2 sodas a day has on your health.
- pjungwir 13y agoAs someone who took a break from a good programming job to attend grad school (on a $20k/year stipend), I can say that for me the causality went poverty->stress. I've never had trouble with money management, but boy I sure sweated every little thing during those years. I was short with my wife and kids. I had sleepless nights. I had no idea how I would ever afford retirement or even health care. Now that I'm back to earning a good living my stress is way back down again. I feel my judgments are more considered, and I'm more confident in myself.