6 ms·

Hi, I'm the guy who started darkpatterns.org. It's nice to see it popping up on HN every now and then. We're actually looking for contributors to help edit and

by harrybr 13y ago

Hi, I'm the guy who started darkpatterns.org. It's nice to see it popping up on HN every now and then. We're actually looking for contributors to help edit and update the content. If anyone is interested, drop us a line (contact details on the site). It's intended to be a community project and we'd love to see a lot more faces and names on the about page.

muyuu 13y ago
Is it available for download outside of slideshare?
genericacct 13y ago
Do you have an entry for airlines that will subtly change the month on the return calendar so you end up having to pay for a rebooking?
kjhughes 13y ago
See also Harry's post yesterday on The Verge, http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/29/4640308/dark-patterns-inside-the-interfaces-designed-to-trick-you http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/29/4640308/dark-patterns-insi... which is a nice introduction to Dark Patterns. And apparently the darkpatterns.org site has been posted to HN previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5347543 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5347543 The URLs lexically match exactly, so I'm not sure why dupe detection failed here.
arethuza 13y ago
I saw this and thought "Ryanair and the No Insurance option" - glad to see it in there as it is amazing that a company could do that...
yeleti 13y ago
does this A/B testing border on a dark pattern? http://teslachat.tumblr.com/post/59767541777/we-hid-the-demo-button http://teslachat.tumblr.com/post/59767541777/we-hid-the-demo...
- etherealG 13y ago
  i don't think so, there's no real malicious intent there. perhaps you should consider why you don't get more signups after a demo instead, i would expect more. maybe it's a good thing to get less signups with the demo button where it was, because signups that don't actually use the service are basically the same as a demo anyway.
movingahead 13y ago
I have often wondered about this but never knew this was so universal. The Ryanair example is unforgettable. For someone taking first steps in to UI design, this came at a great time for me.
mason240 13y ago
This might be relevant: Dark UX: The Elements of The Video Gambling Experience http://uxmag.com/articles/dark-ux-the-elements-of-the-video-gambling-experience http://uxmag.com/articles/dark-ux-the-elements-of-the-video-... >Behind the scenes, however, they engage in all kinds of “optimizations” that encourage gamblers to spend and play more without stopping or burning out. >How do I know this? I have something to confess.
TeeWEE 13y ago
Your website is responding very slowly
tommmmmm 13y ago
One UI thing that's bugging me: the "Browse Patterns" dropdown has a text cursor instead of a pointer.
X-Istence 13y ago
It's funny, as I was going through the site I found the following issue: On http://darkpatterns.org/library/faraway_bill/ http://darkpatterns.org/library/faraway_bill/ Next is listed first, followed by Previous. On the "previous page": http://darkpatterns.org/library/disguised_ads/ http://darkpatterns.org/library/disguised_ads/ It is listed as such Previous followed by Next. So when I got to the Disguied Ads page, I clicked the last link on the page expecting it to take me to the next page, instead it took me back to the previous page!
ArtDev 13y ago
I really like the redesign. darkpatterns.org is a great resource for people in organizations needing a reference about what NOT to do. I would be great to expand it to include dark patterns in software such as the Ask toolbar trick in the Java Oracle installer. Wish I had the time to contribute to the project!
mdisraeli 13y ago
In your talk, you advocate Codes Of Conduct and the like - has any progress been made in the industry towards these?
dredmorbius 13y ago
My comments: I'm that guy who uses NoScript/ScriptSafe to disable JS on most sites. Took me several minutes to figure out what combination of hosts I had to enable to play your slideshow. My suggestion: find a simpler tool to display your slideshow. Otherwise: a pretty decent collection of horrors. I'll also note I'm that guy who generally avoids shopping online if at all possible. I'll do a lot of online research, but prefer patronizing local stores if possible, and paying cash. Why? Because: - You know what you're getting when you buy it. - When the deal is done the deal is done. No late-hit fees or follow-on solicitations. - Generally a much easier returns policy, should that be necessary. Yes, for some items, there's less choice (though you can special order a great deal of stuff), and there are some things I will purchase online (air travel on the rare occasions I feel it utterly necessary to humiliate myself before airport security).
- diminoten 13y ago
  It's completely unreasonable to ask someone to change their website because you disable JavaScript.
  - dhimes 13y ago
    But it's perfectly reasonable to let someone know that the website might be broken for those to whom it is most likely to appeal. A more precise suggestion about how to fix it would have been nice, however.
    - diminoten 13y ago
      I disagree with the assertion that this website will most appeal to people who turn off JavaScript on websites intentionally. And it's not useful to be informed that your website won't work if a critical component is turned off. It just isn't. I'd even go so far as to say that people who disable JavaScript should be ignored entirely.
      - dhimes 13y ago
        Those who know/have cause to/have manifestation of paranoia that manifests as turn off javascript completely are certainly more likely to see the appeal for the slide show. I only made it about halfway through. Not that it's not an important topic, but not my top priority right now. A syllabus would have been useful so that I may see if I have missed something without having to spend another 10 minutes. It can be quite useful for someone to make a suggestion that can make the website have larger appeal. It just can be. I count my suggestion for a syllabus as one. But as a stronger example, aljazeera.com recently started redirecting ips from the US to the subdomain america.aljazeera.com. I couldn't get around it without a proxy. I wrote them an email suggesting they make the old site ("english") an option from the front page (I pointed to CNN.com as an example). They wrote me back saying they changed it and, when I went there, they even had a pop-up that allowed me to have the english site as my default. They had deliberately put in the functionality but didn't realize that some of us wanted their European coverage, not their America coverage. In this case maybe the site will offer alternative formats. Maybe they hadn't thought of it. I also have sites that ignore non-javascript enabled browsers- but they are web-apps and are explicit about the need for js. If I had a normal site with a widget that broke for certain people I very well might take such a comment into serious consideration. It is more helpful, as I said earlier, if such criticism also suggests something that might work well. Otherwise it just sounds like bitching.
smcnally 13y ago
I can't select from the dropdowns or see the embedded slideshow on Chrome or Safari on ipad.

by harrybr 13y ago

muyuu 13y ago

Is it available for download outside of slideshare?

genericacct 13y ago

Do you have an entry for airlines that will subtly change the month on the return calendar so you end up having to pay for a rebooking?

kjhughes 13y ago

See also Harry's post yesterday on The Verge, http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/29/4640308/dark-patterns-inside-the-interfaces-designed-to-trick-you http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/29/4640308/dark-patterns-insi... which is a nice introduction to Dark Patterns. And apparently the darkpatterns.org site has been posted to HN previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5347543 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5347543 The URLs lexically match exactly, so I'm not sure why dupe detection failed here.

arethuza 13y ago

I saw this and thought "Ryanair and the No Insurance option" - glad to see it in there as it is amazing that a company could do that...

yeleti 13y ago

does this A/B testing border on a dark pattern? http://teslachat.tumblr.com/post/59767541777/we-hid-the-demo-button http://teslachat.tumblr.com/post/59767541777/we-hid-the-demo...

etherealG 13y ago
i don't think so, there's no real malicious intent there. perhaps you should consider why you don't get more signups after a demo instead, i would expect more. maybe it's a good thing to get less signups with the demo button where it was, because signups that don't actually use the service are basically the same as a demo anyway.

movingahead 13y ago

I have often wondered about this but never knew this was so universal. The Ryanair example is unforgettable. For someone taking first steps in to UI design, this came at a great time for me.

mason240 13y ago

This might be relevant: Dark UX: The Elements of The Video Gambling Experience http://uxmag.com/articles/dark-ux-the-elements-of-the-video-gambling-experience http://uxmag.com/articles/dark-ux-the-elements-of-the-video-... >Behind the scenes, however, they engage in all kinds of “optimizations” that encourage gamblers to spend and play more without stopping or burning out. >How do I know this? I have something to confess.

TeeWEE 13y ago

Your website is responding very slowly

tommmmmm 13y ago

One UI thing that's bugging me: the "Browse Patterns" dropdown has a text cursor instead of a pointer.

X-Istence 13y ago

It's funny, as I was going through the site I found the following issue: On http://darkpatterns.org/library/faraway_bill/ http://darkpatterns.org/library/faraway_bill/ Next is listed first, followed by Previous. On the "previous page": http://darkpatterns.org/library/disguised_ads/ http://darkpatterns.org/library/disguised_ads/ It is listed as such Previous followed by Next. So when I got to the Disguied Ads page, I clicked the last link on the page expecting it to take me to the next page, instead it took me back to the previous page!

ArtDev 13y ago

I really like the redesign. darkpatterns.org is a great resource for people in organizations needing a reference about what NOT to do. I would be great to expand it to include dark patterns in software such as the Ask toolbar trick in the Java Oracle installer. Wish I had the time to contribute to the project!

mdisraeli 13y ago

In your talk, you advocate Codes Of Conduct and the like - has any progress been made in the industry towards these?

dredmorbius 13y ago

My comments: I'm that guy who uses NoScript/ScriptSafe to disable JS on most sites. Took me several minutes to figure out what combination of hosts I had to enable to play your slideshow. My suggestion: find a simpler tool to display your slideshow. Otherwise: a pretty decent collection of horrors. I'll also note I'm that guy who generally avoids shopping online if at all possible. I'll do a lot of online research, but prefer patronizing local stores if possible, and paying cash. Why? Because: - You know what you're getting when you buy it. - When the deal is done the deal is done. No late-hit fees or follow-on solicitations. - Generally a much easier returns policy, should that be necessary. Yes, for some items, there's less choice (though you can special order a great deal of stuff), and there are some things I will purchase online (air travel on the rare occasions I feel it utterly necessary to humiliate myself before airport security).

diminoten 13y ago
It's completely unreasonable to ask someone to change their website because you disable JavaScript.
- dhimes 13y ago
  But it's perfectly reasonable to let someone know that the website might be broken for those to whom it is most likely to appeal. A more precise suggestion about how to fix it would have been nice, however.
  - diminoten 13y ago
    I disagree with the assertion that this website will most appeal to people who turn off JavaScript on websites intentionally. And it's not useful to be informed that your website won't work if a critical component is turned off. It just isn't. I'd even go so far as to say that people who disable JavaScript should be ignored entirely.
    - dhimes 13y ago
      Those who know/have cause to/have manifestation of paranoia that manifests as turn off javascript completely are certainly more likely to see the appeal for the slide show. I only made it about halfway through. Not that it's not an important topic, but not my top priority right now. A syllabus would have been useful so that I may see if I have missed something without having to spend another 10 minutes. It can be quite useful for someone to make a suggestion that can make the website have larger appeal. It just can be. I count my suggestion for a syllabus as one. But as a stronger example, aljazeera.com recently started redirecting ips from the US to the subdomain america.aljazeera.com. I couldn't get around it without a proxy. I wrote them an email suggesting they make the old site ("english") an option from the front page (I pointed to CNN.com as an example). They wrote me back saying they changed it and, when I went there, they even had a pop-up that allowed me to have the english site as my default. They had deliberately put in the functionality but didn't realize that some of us wanted their European coverage, not their America coverage. In this case maybe the site will offer alternative formats. Maybe they hadn't thought of it. I also have sites that ignore non-javascript enabled browsers- but they are web-apps and are explicit about the need for js. If I had a normal site with a widget that broke for certain people I very well might take such a comment into serious consideration. It is more helpful, as I said earlier, if such criticism also suggests something that might work well. Otherwise it just sounds like bitching.

smcnally 13y ago

I can't select from the dropdowns or see the embedded slideshow on Chrome or Safari on ipad.