5 ms·

The filter bubble thing is overstated. There are times when you want a filter bubble, when you found a piece of information and want to dig deeper on related su

The filter bubble thing is overstated. There are times when you want a filter bubble, when you found a piece of information and want to dig deeper on related subjects, a "conversational" interface that has at least short term memory offers big benefits. Do you really want to ask questions to an entity which acts like it has anterograde amnesia? Can you imagine Captain Picard having to continue to remind the computer of the enterprise about context? Google's 'long term memory' offers lots of benefits too, and 90% of the time, the filter bubble is the correct answer. Like when I search for a particular business on the desktop, and then later I search on my mobile device in Google Maps, and the very first auto-suggest after typing 1-2 characters it the business I searched for yesterday. This is awesome given how irritating it is to enter stuff on mobile devices, especially when in motion, the fewer characters typed the better. Most of the privacy issues can be solved just by opening up an incognito window. You can choose with 1 stroke whether you want a bubble or not.

fetbaffe 13y ago
Captain Picard definitely lives in a filter bubble. So many times he has been fooled by the bad guy is just embarrassing.
teaneedz 13y ago
Personally, I prefer this: [DuckDuckGo Privacy](https://duckduckgo.com/privacy https://duckduckgo.com/privacy) To this: [Incognito mode (browse in private) - Chrome Help](https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/95464?hl=en https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/95464?hl=en) Sometimes it's better to pay the price of a few extra characters to retain some control.
- coob 13y ago
  http://ddg.gg http://ddg.gg <- fewer chars
  - andyking 13y ago
    And a domain from Guernsey, who are unlikely to mess around with things. It always baffles me when I see startups using things like Libyan (.ly) and even Syrian (.sy) domains to make some cutesy word.
    - gavinpc 13y ago
      unlike.ly and cute.sy? parked.
- fatjokes 13y ago
  > Personally, I prefer this: [DuckDuckGo Privacy](https://duckduckgo.com/privacy https://duckduckgo.com/privacy) Ahh, but if the NSA got a secret court order commanding DDG to start collecting data quietly, would users know? Do you think DDG would go the way of Lavabit and shut down voluntarily?
  - teaneedz 13y ago
    That's a really good question. My impression is that Gabriel Weinberg and team are building something on the side of privacy and users. I don't know with any certainty what Mr. Weinberg would do in such a face-off, but at this moment in time, I personally feel more comfortable with DDG than Google. My feelings are simply mine and based upon what I've observed so far with DDG and Google. Google just won't close shop - DDG might close shop. I trust DDG more.
bsullivan01 13y ago
"Google's 'long term memory' offers lots of benefits too" Especially to NSA and local police. NSA can't store everything forever so Google chips in. Are you a Google employee by any chance? If so, your tune would change if Apple was doing it and Google wasn't.
- mortehu 13y ago
  Needs more accusations of ill intent.
- taproot 13y ago
  Apple does do it? How do you think siri works?
  - bsullivan01 13y ago
    please read my comment again. It's covered in there
taproot 13y ago
I really think we need a search command to break out of the bubble on google, you are right 90% of the time its the right choice but the other 10 your screwed, some trial and error with removing the offending terms but sometimes it just doesnt.
- imurray 13y ago
  https://startpage.com/ https://startpage.com/ gives you Google search results minus personalization.
  - Aldipower 13y ago
    And startpage.com is located in the Netherlands and not in the USA like DuckDuckGo. I can not trust USA services anymore. DuckDuckGo is located in the Amazon Cloud and Amazon is the next target of the NSA.
  - eis 13y ago
    startpage.com includes ads from Google and forwards you upon a result click to google.com/aclk for tracking purposes. Please do not spread this site saying it does not submit data to Google. It does guaranteed for the ads, and knowing the search engine scene a bit I would also bet that they submit your IP and useragent to Google for every search query. It seems recently everybody accepts those claims about privacy protecting search engines without checking anything.
    - MitziMoto 13y ago
      Relax, all he said was that it removes the personalization, which it does.
    - imurray 13y ago
      As a sibling comment says, I didn't actually make any privacy statements. However, startpage's help pages claim not to pass on IP addresses, useragents, cookies, or other identifying information. This claimed-independent report says so too: https://www.european-privacy-seal.eu/awarded-seals/de-110022/ https://www.european-privacy-seal.eu/awarded-seals/de-110022... — verifying such statements is hard; believe what you will. I agree, it seems clicking on the Google ads (rather than search results) does put a request via google.com/aclk. Privacy conscious users could block ads to avoid such mistakes. Of course startpage must send some data to google: the search terms are needed to get the search results themselves (as well as for selecting the ads). That could be a privacy leak, for example if simultaneously searching for a name and a sensitive topic. It doesn't seem nearly as bad as tying the search terms to a unique identifier across searches however.
barrkel 13y ago
The privacy issue I have is that governments can come in and request all data companies have about me, and there is nothing companies can do about this. There is no privacy promise they can make to me that can withstand a government request. The only defence is to ensure the data does not exist. In practice, this means using an incognito window almost all the time. Simply the fact that I'm on the other end of an IP logged in to a service is information I'd rather not share. And that's just too onerous, so instead I ensure my main browser isn't logged in to any services, amongst other defensive measures.
marbu 13y ago
Exactly, the bubble it's not bad in all use cases. Nevertheless it would be really great if you actually have a real control over it: switching from one "bubble" to another for different contexts or disabling it altogether.

fetbaffe 13y ago

Captain Picard definitely lives in a filter bubble. So many times he has been fooled by the bad guy is just embarrassing.

teaneedz 13y ago

Personally, I prefer this: [DuckDuckGo Privacy](https://duckduckgo.com/privacy https://duckduckgo.com/privacy) To this: [Incognito mode (browse in private) - Chrome Help](https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/95464?hl=en https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/95464?hl=en) Sometimes it's better to pay the price of a few extra characters to retain some control.

coob 13y ago
http://ddg.gg http://ddg.gg <- fewer chars
- andyking 13y ago
  And a domain from Guernsey, who are unlikely to mess around with things. It always baffles me when I see startups using things like Libyan (.ly) and even Syrian (.sy) domains to make some cutesy word.
  - gavinpc 13y ago
    unlike.ly and cute.sy? parked.
fatjokes 13y ago
> Personally, I prefer this: [DuckDuckGo Privacy](https://duckduckgo.com/privacy https://duckduckgo.com/privacy) Ahh, but if the NSA got a secret court order commanding DDG to start collecting data quietly, would users know? Do you think DDG would go the way of Lavabit and shut down voluntarily?
- teaneedz 13y ago
  That's a really good question. My impression is that Gabriel Weinberg and team are building something on the side of privacy and users. I don't know with any certainty what Mr. Weinberg would do in such a face-off, but at this moment in time, I personally feel more comfortable with DDG than Google. My feelings are simply mine and based upon what I've observed so far with DDG and Google. Google just won't close shop - DDG might close shop. I trust DDG more.

bsullivan01 13y ago

"Google's 'long term memory' offers lots of benefits too" Especially to NSA and local police. NSA can't store everything forever so Google chips in. Are you a Google employee by any chance? If so, your tune would change if Apple was doing it and Google wasn't.

mortehu 13y ago
Needs more accusations of ill intent.
taproot 13y ago
Apple does do it? How do you think siri works?
- bsullivan01 13y ago
  please read my comment again. It's covered in there

taproot 13y ago

I really think we need a search command to break out of the bubble on google, you are right 90% of the time its the right choice but the other 10 your screwed, some trial and error with removing the offending terms but sometimes it just doesnt.

imurray 13y ago
https://startpage.com/ https://startpage.com/ gives you Google search results minus personalization.
- Aldipower 13y ago
  And startpage.com is located in the Netherlands and not in the USA like DuckDuckGo. I can not trust USA services anymore. DuckDuckGo is located in the Amazon Cloud and Amazon is the next target of the NSA.
- eis 13y ago
  startpage.com includes ads from Google and forwards you upon a result click to google.com/aclk for tracking purposes. Please do not spread this site saying it does not submit data to Google. It does guaranteed for the ads, and knowing the search engine scene a bit I would also bet that they submit your IP and useragent to Google for every search query. It seems recently everybody accepts those claims about privacy protecting search engines without checking anything.
  - MitziMoto 13y ago
    Relax, all he said was that it removes the personalization, which it does.
  - imurray 13y ago
    As a sibling comment says, I didn't actually make any privacy statements. However, startpage's help pages claim not to pass on IP addresses, useragents, cookies, or other identifying information. This claimed-independent report says so too: https://www.european-privacy-seal.eu/awarded-seals/de-110022/ https://www.european-privacy-seal.eu/awarded-seals/de-110022... — verifying such statements is hard; believe what you will. I agree, it seems clicking on the Google ads (rather than search results) does put a request via google.com/aclk. Privacy conscious users could block ads to avoid such mistakes. Of course startpage must send some data to google: the search terms are needed to get the search results themselves (as well as for selecting the ads). That could be a privacy leak, for example if simultaneously searching for a name and a sensitive topic. It doesn't seem nearly as bad as tying the search terms to a unique identifier across searches however.

barrkel 13y ago

The privacy issue I have is that governments can come in and request all data companies have about me, and there is nothing companies can do about this. There is no privacy promise they can make to me that can withstand a government request. The only defence is to ensure the data does not exist. In practice, this means using an incognito window almost all the time. Simply the fact that I'm on the other end of an IP logged in to a service is information I'd rather not share. And that's just too onerous, so instead I ensure my main browser isn't logged in to any services, amongst other defensive measures.

marbu 13y ago

Exactly, the bubble it's not bad in all use cases. Nevertheless it would be really great if you actually have a real control over it: switching from one "bubble" to another for different contexts or disabling it altogether.