4 ms·

Sigh. Because 90s-boom-startup mentality is a really great pedagogical tool on motivated, previously tightly selected students. Or human beings in general. NOT.

Sigh. Because 90s-boom-startup mentality is a really great pedagogical tool on motivated, previously tightly selected students. Or human beings in general. NOT. Also, this bit: "Grading will be _highly competitive_." Meaning: "I could have used powerful team collaboration tools in this classroom, but instead I've pitted these students against each other." Meaning: "I don't actually understand evaluation of performance, I just like bludgeoning people over whom I have power." Meaning: "I was hazed with this kind of crap as a student, I think it put a few hairs on my chest, and so I return the abuse unto you." Listen up, instructor: Berkeley probably has some excellent instructor training resources. You've missed the past half-century, esp. the past fifteen-or-so years, of vast improvements in educational methods. Maybe your security chops are great, but your syllabus says something radically different about your teaching skills.

Ar-Curunir 13y ago
lol. I highly doubt that that he was thinking that. You're spouting a lot of nonsense in that post. The consensus here at Berkeley is that this is simply a ploy to get students to drop the class because there isn't enough space for everybody.
- koko775 13y ago
  Sure, but how is degrading people to disgust them out of taking your class any less reprehensible? It's pretty clear the rules are nigh-unenforcable, but the misery it threatens students with is awful and treats students like children and criminals.
  - 001sky 13y ago
    How is this degrading? Its merely strict.
    - hexecute 13y ago
      I don't know about merely strict. "If you are disabled and require special arrangements for exams, you must contact the instructor with full documentation by 5PM, August 30. The alternate exam will be an oral exam, closed-book, closed-note, cumulative over all class material and will be scheduled at 9AM on Sunday, December 15."
      - 001sky 13y ago
        I think its clear the Prof is being slightly 'Darwinian' in his approach to teaching the class. But its a bit of a streatch to call this "degrading". closed-book, closed-note, cumulative over all class material and will be scheduled at 9AM Sounds like a real-world job interview, no? I think the bar for "degrading" behaviour in academia should be set higher than something that would be everyday normal in "the real world".
        hexecute 13y ago
        Except it's only for disabled students. Regular students get the normal exams, so it's literally "slightly Darwinian"
        001sky 13y ago
        I think you are missing the context. In the US (Berkeley) this is an almost certainlyadministrative accomodation (ie, a favour) required by law to make the test "more accessible". Which is code for easier. Providing exams for disabled students is not degrading, if such accomodations are helpful. Other forms of accomodataion (eg, relaxing of standards or deadlines) may reasonably be subject to abuse, in the absence of direct oversight. Etc. If there were some actual evidence this was an act of intimidation or "humiliation" it would be interesting to see such supported. In all likelihood, it would probably lead to a situation of legal jeapordy for the University.
- derleth 13y ago
  > The consensus here at Berkeley is that this is simply a ploy to get students to drop the class because there isn't enough space for everybody. Rinky-dink (non-Berzerkely) universities do this by setting configuration options in the registration software such that only a certain number of people can register each semester. If you get in a bit late and have a transcendentally good reason to need that course that semester, the professor is allowed to sign a small form which overrides the software and lets you in anyway. In short, unless UC-Berkeley's software is stuck in 1968 just like its politics, the reason you gave is highly unlikely.
  - sqrt 13y ago
    The issue is that they weren't expecting there to be so few TAs, and as such the system allowed many more students to enroll than they ended up being able to support. (Granted, the registration system here is pretty old, but it's not as horrible as you describe.)
    - jychang 13y ago
      It's literally emulating phone lines that dial in. Telebears is a massive piece of shit. Source: Current Berkeley student.
      - darth_aardvark 13y ago
        Telebears is certainly shit, but it's not to blame for this particular fuckup.
  - ngoldbaum 13y ago
    Nah, there's software. You're right it's a political issue. The administration is happy to create classes and then not properly staff them with TAs, graders, etc. They say it's due to budget issues but it's really because they want to transition the university to have more large (profitable) classes.
  - Ar-Curunir 13y ago
    Well The software that we use is rather bad, but that's not the problem here. What happened in CS161's case was that the department had originally planned to have a certain number of students in the class, and was looking for TAs. They weren't able to find these TAs, and that led to the cancellation of three out of seven sections.
- eru 13y ago
  They have to kick people out of--essentially--number theory classes in Berkeley because they are too popular?
num3ric 13y ago
I also truly despise the phrasing "highly competitive". These kinds of classes, when you take a few in one semester, can eat your soul. They drown you in just enough material to kill that initial spark of interest. Gone is the pleasure of finding things out. And when these 'competitive' students succeed and graduate, they feel lost/void because their life is not dictated by the next exam anymore. (Yes, I learned a lot but I'm still resentful. Syllabi like these are not right.)
- at-fates-hands 13y ago
  Most of my hardest classes like Differential Equations were monsters and I struggled mightily. I thought about giving up several times, but stuck with it for some reason. After the class, two of my engineering buds and I went for a beer. They asked me if I thought I would be a better person for struggling and succeeding, or giving up and waiting to take it again? The answer was simple. Just because they're "competitive" isn't always a bad thing. Struggling to learn is normal. Just because the prof makes it competitive might make you work harder, put in more hours and in the end, learn more through your struggles. There is no
ibrahima 13y ago
Apparently this instructor was actually quite good in the past, I think this is just a really misguided attempt to make the class smaller because they don't have enough instructional staff. I feel like the only possible outcome is that the instructor is forced to rescind this syllabus and has his reputation completely ruined, which is sad. It appears that he's playing chicken with the university, and I don't think the outcome can possibly be good.
- saidajigumi 13y ago
  Seems like the sentiments have been echoed throughout this thread that there's been games around class size politics going on. That's amazingly unfortunate, and hardly restricted to Berkeley. I'm sorry to hear an otherwise good instructor felt forced into this position.

Ar-Curunir 13y ago

lol. I highly doubt that that he was thinking that. You're spouting a lot of nonsense in that post. The consensus here at Berkeley is that this is simply a ploy to get students to drop the class because there isn't enough space for everybody.

koko775 13y ago
Sure, but how is degrading people to disgust them out of taking your class any less reprehensible? It's pretty clear the rules are nigh-unenforcable, but the misery it threatens students with is awful and treats students like children and criminals.
- 001sky 13y ago
  How is this degrading? Its merely strict.
  - hexecute 13y ago
    I don't know about merely strict. "If you are disabled and require special arrangements for exams, you must contact the instructor with full documentation by 5PM, August 30. The alternate exam will be an oral exam, closed-book, closed-note, cumulative over all class material and will be scheduled at 9AM on Sunday, December 15."
    - 001sky 13y ago
      I think its clear the Prof is being slightly 'Darwinian' in his approach to teaching the class. But its a bit of a streatch to call this "degrading". closed-book, closed-note, cumulative over all class material and will be scheduled at 9AM Sounds like a real-world job interview, no? I think the bar for "degrading" behaviour in academia should be set higher than something that would be everyday normal in "the real world".
      - hexecute 13y ago
        Except it's only for disabled students. Regular students get the normal exams, so it's literally "slightly Darwinian"
        001sky 13y ago
        I think you are missing the context. In the US (Berkeley) this is an almost certainlyadministrative accomodation (ie, a favour) required by law to make the test "more accessible". Which is code for easier. Providing exams for disabled students is not degrading, if such accomodations are helpful. Other forms of accomodataion (eg, relaxing of standards or deadlines) may reasonably be subject to abuse, in the absence of direct oversight. Etc. If there were some actual evidence this was an act of intimidation or "humiliation" it would be interesting to see such supported. In all likelihood, it would probably lead to a situation of legal jeapordy for the University.
derleth 13y ago
> The consensus here at Berkeley is that this is simply a ploy to get students to drop the class because there isn't enough space for everybody. Rinky-dink (non-Berzerkely) universities do this by setting configuration options in the registration software such that only a certain number of people can register each semester. If you get in a bit late and have a transcendentally good reason to need that course that semester, the professor is allowed to sign a small form which overrides the software and lets you in anyway. In short, unless UC-Berkeley's software is stuck in 1968 just like its politics, the reason you gave is highly unlikely.
- sqrt 13y ago
  The issue is that they weren't expecting there to be so few TAs, and as such the system allowed many more students to enroll than they ended up being able to support. (Granted, the registration system here is pretty old, but it's not as horrible as you describe.)
  - jychang 13y ago
    It's literally emulating phone lines that dial in. Telebears is a massive piece of shit. Source: Current Berkeley student.
    - darth_aardvark 13y ago
      Telebears is certainly shit, but it's not to blame for this particular fuckup.
- ngoldbaum 13y ago
  Nah, there's software. You're right it's a political issue. The administration is happy to create classes and then not properly staff them with TAs, graders, etc. They say it's due to budget issues but it's really because they want to transition the university to have more large (profitable) classes.
- Ar-Curunir 13y ago
  Well The software that we use is rather bad, but that's not the problem here. What happened in CS161's case was that the department had originally planned to have a certain number of students in the class, and was looking for TAs. They weren't able to find these TAs, and that led to the cancellation of three out of seven sections.
eru 13y ago
They have to kick people out of--essentially--number theory classes in Berkeley because they are too popular?

num3ric 13y ago

I also truly despise the phrasing "highly competitive". These kinds of classes, when you take a few in one semester, can eat your soul. They drown you in just enough material to kill that initial spark of interest. Gone is the pleasure of finding things out. And when these 'competitive' students succeed and graduate, they feel lost/void because their life is not dictated by the next exam anymore. (Yes, I learned a lot but I'm still resentful. Syllabi like these are not right.)

at-fates-hands 13y ago
Most of my hardest classes like Differential Equations were monsters and I struggled mightily. I thought about giving up several times, but stuck with it for some reason. After the class, two of my engineering buds and I went for a beer. They asked me if I thought I would be a better person for struggling and succeeding, or giving up and waiting to take it again? The answer was simple. Just because they're "competitive" isn't always a bad thing. Struggling to learn is normal. Just because the prof makes it competitive might make you work harder, put in more hours and in the end, learn more through your struggles. There is no

ibrahima 13y ago

Apparently this instructor was actually quite good in the past, I think this is just a really misguided attempt to make the class smaller because they don't have enough instructional staff. I feel like the only possible outcome is that the instructor is forced to rescind this syllabus and has his reputation completely ruined, which is sad. It appears that he's playing chicken with the university, and I don't think the outcome can possibly be good.

saidajigumi 13y ago
Seems like the sentiments have been echoed throughout this thread that there's been games around class size politics going on. That's amazingly unfortunate, and hardly restricted to Berkeley. I'm sorry to hear an otherwise good instructor felt forced into this position.