10 ms·

A Real Keyboard for Programmers?

35 points by kasa 13y ago

kvinnako 13y ago
Any reviews from the actual users who used this CODE keyboard. In comparision to other high end 150$ keyboards, would you recommend this one?
- CedarMadness 13y ago
  It just launched, does anyone even have one yet?
  - jcurbo 13y ago
    Probably soon - I ordered one on Tuesday and it shipped yesterday. I guess they're selling quickly, I saw a tweet from Jeff Atwood last night saying anyone that wants one should order soon else they'll have to wait for the next batch.
- seferphier 13y ago
  It is just a normal mechanical keyboard. any one who never tried a mechanical keyboard would love it.
  - Filligree 13y ago
    As opposed to..? Are you implying that someone who has wouldn't like it?
    - seferphier 13y ago
      na. i personally haven't tried the build quality of WASD, but I heard it is really solid. should be a pretty good keyboard for 150. there are others out there for the same price if it is sold out.
      - Filligree 13y ago
        It is. :P There are a couple others mentioned in the discussion, but which would you suggest?
walls 13y ago
> And what is that “Print Screen” key doing there?! > Stupid keys like Page Up, Scroll Lock, and Insert are gone. Surely I'm not the only person regularly using the "page" and "print screen" buttons?
- Avshalom 13y ago
  I don't use print screen much but I page the shit out things.
  - tlarkworthy 13y ago
    print screen takes a screenshot (windows and linux, + ALT for current window only). I have met lots of programmers who didn't know it, and bless me when they discover it. I am on the edge of getting RSA and have replaced all my keyboards with ergonomic ones. This CODE keyboard is of no use to me.
- agumonkey 13y ago
  I was a heavy user of all the dimension keys: u|l|d|r arrows (with ctrl/shift to step) , page u|d, home(aka start) end. Never touched the mouse. Too far, not precise enough. One of the first thing you read while learning emacs/vim starts is leaving the arrows. The idea is that static~ wrists => more speed and less fatigue.[1] Then you'll wanna stop using anything more than 2 steps from the home row, meaning the other keys are also about to go away in your mind. I understand that this would cause a complete reshake of OS keyboard interfaces to adopt home-focused keybindings, but they aren't really necessary. [1] ironically this was the reason I dropped using the mouse for anything else than analogical input (say drawing) in the first place.
- nhebb 13y ago
  All the time, along with the arrow keys and numeric keypad. i hurt my shoulder once and had to type one-handed for a week. During that week the much hated caps lock key was a savior.
- SkyMarshal 13y ago
  Print Screen is the Magic SysReq Key [1] on keyboards without an actual SysReq key, for *nix systems at least. Maybe the author has only ever programmed on Windows machines, but he's not describing any kind of Coder's keyboard I'd ever use. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reisub https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reisub
dnautics 13y ago
as for snake case's underscore, and css' dash, dvorak layout has that in a very nice place.
bhauer 13y ago
I agree with what I take as the underlying premise of this blog entry: if you're going to call something a "keyboard for programmers" it would be nice if you made concerted effort to improve matters for programmers, moreso than just tactile ergonomics. However, I have mixed feelings with several of the author's specific points. 1. In general, I think a keyboard should retain all legacy keys, including Scroll Lock and Printscreen because they have acquired specific meaning through their many years. If a new keyboard were paired with a new operating system, then I'd be comfortable--even happy--with disposing of legacy. As it is though, Printscreen is the easiest way to grab a screen-capture or window-capture. 2. The CODE keyboard may be marketed as designed for programmers, but it seems to also carry over a certain "gamer programmer" target. Hence, the PS/2 adapter (I believe some harder-core gamers profess to PS/2 being faster). 3. Space is indeed very important. I am not sure if the author is just pointing that out matter-of-factly or intends it as criticism. I assume the prior. 4. Very much agree that Caps Lock should be diminished in importance. It should be located on some fringe alongside Scroll Lock. Many of my colleagues and I simply disable the key outright. 5. Also agree that backslash should be diminished in importance. However, I personally would like a "programmers keyboard" that made all variations of brackets < > ( ) [ ] { } / \ available (a) without modifier keys of any sort and (b) in side-by-side pairings. It bothers me that / and \ are not side-by-side on most/all keyboards. 6. Strongly disagree that Page Up (and presumably Page Down, although it's not cited by name) is a dumb key. I press Page Up, Page Down, Home, and End hundreds of times per day. 7. I don't actually like that function keys are often trimmed to half-height even on desktop keyboards. That is fine for a laptop. But on my desktop, I have the room for an additional row of full-height keys, thank you. In general, desktop keyboards that are built to laptop aesthetics are dubious to me. 8. Strongly disagree that arrow keys lack importance. I smell a vimmer. Oh, sure enough, he mentions the ADM3A. Please, I beg of you, vimmers: don't pretend to speak for all programmers. 9. Strongly agree with the premise that a programmer's keyboard should avoid use of modifier keys for symbols. I have often ranted that programming language designers should avoid arrow operators -> and => in their syntax because of the shift transition required to type an arrow on most keyboards. I like the premise of this blog entry a great deal! Please, let's see some actual innovation in programmer's keyboards. But apparently, we should have one style for vimmers and one for other programmers. :)
RazerM 13y ago
What's wrong with caps lock? Only when using an editor is there an easy shortcut to capitalise multiple characters at a time. Typing a word in caps using the shift keys is uncomfortable due to alternating which hand presses shift.
- jack-r-abbit 13y ago
  I thought the same thing. I do wish it was moved though. I probably hit it on accident a few times a week when I was trying to get Tab or Shift.
  - Kluny 13y ago
    I've got mine mapped to f6 right now. My capslock is an extra ctrl button, but I might make it esc pretty soon.
- chch 13y ago
  As someone who uses left-shift nigh exclusively, does this mean you use different shifts for different letters? In general, for typing in ALL CAPS for me, I just rest my little finger on the shift key and then type as normal (at normal speed), but I've never had proper typing form. ;)
  - RazerM 13y ago
    Yeah, I type 'properly' with every key belonging to a specific finger. I can only press a few keys belonging to my left index and middle finger while pressing shift, the others require an awkward hand position.
- ripter 13y ago
  Best thing about the caps lock key is that I can remap it to control. Even when my caps lock key isn't remapped I'll hold down the shift or use my editor. It is uncomfortable to hold the shift key down for long words, but it is so rare that I don't mind.
- rza 13y ago
  I use caps lock quite often, e.g. for constant variables or acronyms. Then again, I have to remember to turn it off or else my next few key strokes will make vim go crazy.
jasonkester 13y ago
Things I learned from reading this blog post: There are people who use their thumbs to press Alt (or cmd on a mac). That would never have occurred to me (either to do, or that anybody had ever done so). I imagine that explains why keyboard manufacturers are so happy to put garbage keys I don't care about right next to my Shift, Ctrl and Alt keys. Personally, my ideal keyboard would have those expanded and the windows and fn keys removed off to the right side of the spacebar (or to the underside of the computer for the amount of use they actually get).
- CatMtKing 13y ago
  :O What finger do you use instead? The pinky?
  - jasonkester 13y ago
    All the keys in the lower left corner get the pinky, unless the pinky is already holding the shift or ctrl (in which case, hey! I hit it with my thumb! Who knew...) The ones in the lower right can go their entire lives unpressed.
- SkyMarshal 13y ago
  Fwiw I use the Windows key all the time, on Linux no less. It's either bound to a launcher (Synapse, Gnome-Do), or used in hotkey sequences like Linux control commands ([Win]-[l] = screen lock, etc).
- doktrin 13y ago
  > * There are people who use their thumbs to press Alt (or cmd on a mac). That would never have occurred to me (either to do, or that anybody had ever done so).* What finger do you use for your left alt key? The thumb has always felt very natural to me, since the use of any other finger would require a significantly longer (and more awkward) travel distance, given the other 4 fingers are somewhere near the home row.
- com2kid 13y ago
  I use my thumb to press alt, ctrl, and shift! I have a big thumb. :) Also those "garbage keys" are very useful. The Menu key on the right side of your keyboard is, in Windows, a right click button. If I want to spell check something that is marked erroneous (such as "erroneous" when I tried to just spell it!) I can arrow over to it and use my Menu button to pop up a context menu that lets me select the correct word. The Windows keys are also awesome, there are a ton of useful shortcuts bound to them already, and you can always feel free to bind even more! Especially if you are in unix land, where binding keys is easier than on Windows. On Windows, the Windows key is reserved for system commands such as Window management. Win-arrow for docking, win-d to minimize everything, etc. Heck Win-# switches between applications in the order they are open on my task bar! Except for a few misbehaving apps (and the bloody web!), those extra keyboard keys mean the Windows UI is pretty much keyboard driven. I find it funny that people come over to Windows land from *nix and complain about how mouse driven things are! Of course you take take your favorite X windows manager and do all of the remapping yourself to get similar functionality. If you are using one of the keyboard based window managers already, think of it as a way to avoid the need for double bucky key-bindings. The FN key on laptops does suck, but for a lot of smaller laptops with reduced keyboards, there is no other way to access a lot of functionality. Things like back-light controls, external monitor settings, and so forth, are all vital and accessed through fn key combinations. They aren't /often/ used, but they are used often enough!
Coincoin 13y ago
Am I the only one who still uses Shift-Delete and Shift-Insert to cut and paste? I swear when I tell my fellow programmers, they look at me as if I'm from another planet.
- Pxtl 13y ago
  I honestly had no idea that shift-delete was cut. Either way, "delete" is the key I usually rage about when I'm using a cramped laptop keyboard and can't find it. No, backspace is not an adequate substitute.
- nollidge 13y ago
  It's definitely a lot easier to use those when I mouse left-handed (as I sometimes do due to pain in my right shoulder).
wesley 13y ago
This is the real, modular keyboard for programmers/hackers: http://acidfire.ca/keyboard/BDY14295.jpg http://acidfire.ca/keyboard/BDY14295.jpg (It's a modular kit, the image above is just one of the configurations, the center part is an addon). You can also have multiple layers, so you could create a dedicated programming layer. All firmware will be open source. It's going to go up on kickstarter soon (when Canada launches in september). More info here: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44940.0 http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44940.0 Some more images (the thread is pretty lengthy): http://acidfire.ca/keyboard/BDY14209.jpg http://acidfire.ca/keyboard/BDY14209.jpg http://acidfire.ca/keyboard/BDY14230.jpg http://acidfire.ca/keyboard/BDY14230.jpg http://acidfire.ca/keyboard/BDY14300.jpg http://acidfire.ca/keyboard/BDY14300.jpg Over the top: http://acidfire.ca/keyboard/BDY14284.jpg http://acidfire.ca/keyboard/BDY14284.jpg Later on more modules will be sold, such as a trackball module that you could place in the center and so on. There's also going to be a portable version: http://acidfire.ca/keyboard/BDY14438.jpg http://acidfire.ca/keyboard/BDY14438.jpg http://acidfire.ca/keyboard/BDY14440.jpg http://acidfire.ca/keyboard/BDY14440.jpg (variation)
- seferphier 13y ago
  I have ErgoDox too. Nice keyboard stand.
- _random_ 13y ago
  Looks cool, would consider for under $200.
Pxtl 13y ago
Aaaaand it's dead. The only features I want in a "programming" keyboard that make it different from a normal, vanilla, cheap commodity keyboard: 1) An underscore key in between the space bar and right "ALT". 2) Add the numbers A through F above the numpad. 3) Move the caps-lock key the heck away from its current prime real-estate above the shift-key. If you wanted to be really fancy, a built-in macro recording/playback facility could be handy if I'm working with something exceptionally primitive and need to automate something.
newman314 13y ago
I actually want a KBtalking pro keyboard. The only feature missing for me is the backlit keys.
kylec 13y ago
It sounds like the author is describing the Happy Hacking keyboard: http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?pid=pdkb400b http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?pid=pdkb400b Control where the caps lock key is, escape moved down, and elimination of all unnecessary (and some debatably necessary) keys. It actually looks very close in layout to the diagram in the article of the keyboard that vi was developed on.
- 9999 13y ago
  I have an HHK Pro 2. The Topre keys are great, but they are considerably different than the Cherry MX keys that most mechanical keyboards use (and they're more expensive). The layout is absolutely fantastic. It led me to remap the control key to the capslock key on all of my laptops as well. If anyone is looking to buy an HHK, I would highly recommend buying it from amazon jp to avoid the high markup. Even if you use a third party shipper (like Tenso), you'll still save over the prices that elitekeyboards charges.
geon 13y ago
The site was down for me. Here is the google cache mirror: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.naildrivin5.com/blog/2013/08/29/a-real-keyboard-for-programmers.html&strip=1 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://...
lawn 13y ago
For a self-built, completely programmable keyboard you may feast your eyes on the GH60: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41464 http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41464. It's small, without function keys or numpad, and it comes with different layouts. You're expected to source your own switches and a case. Currently the group buy doesn't accept any new orders, but if you're interested some boards should be sold peer-to-peer.
__mharrison__ 13y ago
I've blogged a bit about what I want in a keyboard [0]. What I'm currently missing is chorded keys for symbols. (ie having them on the home row with a modifier key). I think that would actually help programmers. The problem is is that my Python specific symbols layer is going go be less than optimal for a C/Java/... programmer. 0-http://hairysun.com/blog/2013/04/02/oh-ergonomic-keyboard/ http://hairysun.com/blog/2013/04/02/oh-ergonomic-keyboard/
terhechte 13y ago
Microsoft has a new ergonomic keyboard coming out, with chiclet keys like the Apple Keyboards / Laptops: http://xahlee.info/kbd/Microsoft_sculpt_ergonomic_keyboard.html http://xahlee.info/kbd/Microsoft_sculpt_ergonomic_keyboard.h... I think I'm going to order one of these once they come out. It looks gorgeous, and I'm coding so much these days, I think it would be wise to buy one of these. It also has a detachable number block, which I find great. I need these for Blender 3D work, but apart from that never use them. So I can just stow them away. It also seems to have two space keys. I wonder if it is possible to detect which one is the left or right one. Or remap them. Then I could remap one of them as ESC for vim, for example. That'd be rad.
- com2kid 13y ago
  > It also has a detachable number block, which I find great. I need these for Blender 3D work, but apart from that never use them. So I can just stow them away. The detachable number block is amazing for ergonomics, it moves your mouse closer to your keyboard, reducing how far out your arm stretches. The keyboard itself is chiclet, which I disprove of. :( I love my key presses to be deep and satisfying! > It also seems to have two space keys. I wonder if it is possible to detect which one is the left or right one. Or remap them. Then I could remap one of them as ESC for vim, for example. That'd be rad. I beta tested the keyboard (woot! I got in because a designer on it heard me complaining about keyboards to a friend!), and funny enough internally the keyboard does know that there is a difference, and from what I understand talking to someone on the team, they originally allowed for some limited remapping abilities of it. From what I gathered the feature confused people and got cut at least in the version of firmware I was handed for it. I am not sure what the situations will be like on release of course! As far as the computer is concerned though, it isn't like with shift where keymaps defined for two of them (AFAIK at least), to make "space" work properly I imagine the keyboard has to report either key as the scancode for "space". IIRC they allowed remapping one of the keys to delete or backspace or something like that, it was actually pretty useful for coding. ESC would also be nice. :) > I think I'm going to order one of these once they come out. It looks gorgeous, and I'm coding so much these days, I think it would be wise to buy one of these. It does look awesome, and it is amazingly comfortable.
- 13y ago
thedufer 13y ago
It sounds like most people didn't follow the link and read about the actual keyboard. Things that directly contradict complaints in this article: - There is a hardware switch to remap caps lock to CTRL - There is a hardware switch to remap scroll lock to windows lock (temporarily disable the windows key) - The weird context menu button can be hardware-remapped to a Fn key that turns the pageup/dn set of 6 keys into media keys (and Pause into what appears to be Mute) Other neat things: - Hardware switches to swap between QWERTY, Dvorak, and Colemak, as well as to switch the alt/ctrl keys (supposedly useful when used on a mac?) - Backlit - 6-key rollover (n-key over PS/2) Also: a PS/2 keyboard is required to get into BIOS on many (even modern) motherboards. USB usually doesn't register until too late. I'm not really sure why a PS/2 keyboard (or adapter, at least) isn't considered a hard requirement for a hacker's keyboard. The bigger issue is that there's a steep learning curve to moving any of they keys that someone uses. You can't just arbitrarily move things and assume that it'll work for more than a couple dozen people.
vizzah 13y ago
"Stupid keys" PgUp/PgDn??! I wonder how people navigate and read through their source code if not using PageUp/Down. Scrolling with mouse? When one key press can bring you exactly one page forward or backwards. Irreplacable keys for me. I can't code properly on a keyboard which doesn't have these keys under my third and middle finger (making short jumps from the set of 4 arrow keys).
- danneu 13y ago
  Ctrl-D/U in Vim.
_random_ 13y ago
Can imagine future posts: tea better than coffee, blue better than red etc. That Apple keyboard is rubbish for devs. Arrow keys are perfect as is. Pg Up/Down are useful etc.
sluu99 13y ago
most i agree, except "Stupid keys like Page Up, Scroll Lock, and Insert are gone. They have no place in modern computing." Having the default 2 x 3 insert home pgup; delete end pgdown is my #1 requirement to any keyboard.

35 points by kasa 13y ago

Any reviews from the actual users who used this CODE keyboard. In comparision to other high end 150$ keyboards, would you recommend this one?

CedarMadness 13y ago
It just launched, does anyone even have one yet?
- jcurbo 13y ago
  Probably soon - I ordered one on Tuesday and it shipped yesterday. I guess they're selling quickly, I saw a tweet from Jeff Atwood last night saying anyone that wants one should order soon else they'll have to wait for the next batch.
seferphier 13y ago
It is just a normal mechanical keyboard. any one who never tried a mechanical keyboard would love it.
- Filligree 13y ago
  As opposed to..? Are you implying that someone who has wouldn't like it?
  - seferphier 13y ago
    na. i personally haven't tried the build quality of WASD, but I heard it is really solid. should be a pretty good keyboard for 150. there are others out there for the same price if it is sold out.
    - Filligree 13y ago
      It is. :P There are a couple others mentioned in the discussion, but which would you suggest?

walls 13y ago

> And what is that “Print Screen” key doing there?! > Stupid keys like Page Up, Scroll Lock, and Insert are gone. Surely I'm not the only person regularly using the "page" and "print screen" buttons?

Avshalom 13y ago
I don't use print screen much but I page the shit out things.
- tlarkworthy 13y ago
  print screen takes a screenshot (windows and linux, + ALT for current window only). I have met lots of programmers who didn't know it, and bless me when they discover it. I am on the edge of getting RSA and have replaced all my keyboards with ergonomic ones. This CODE keyboard is of no use to me.
agumonkey 13y ago
I was a heavy user of all the dimension keys: u|l|d|r arrows (with ctrl/shift to step) , page u|d, home(aka start) end. Never touched the mouse. Too far, not precise enough. One of the first thing you read while learning emacs/vim starts is leaving the arrows. The idea is that static~ wrists => more speed and less fatigue.[1] Then you'll wanna stop using anything more than 2 steps from the home row, meaning the other keys are also about to go away in your mind. I understand that this would cause a complete reshake of OS keyboard interfaces to adopt home-focused keybindings, but they aren't really necessary. [1] ironically this was the reason I dropped using the mouse for anything else than analogical input (say drawing) in the first place.
nhebb 13y ago
All the time, along with the arrow keys and numeric keypad. i hurt my shoulder once and had to type one-handed for a week. During that week the much hated caps lock key was a savior.
SkyMarshal 13y ago
Print Screen is the Magic SysReq Key [1] on keyboards without an actual SysReq key, for *nix systems at least. Maybe the author has only ever programmed on Windows machines, but he's not describing any kind of Coder's keyboard I'd ever use. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reisub https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reisub

dnautics 13y ago

as for snake case's underscore, and css' dash, dvorak layout has that in a very nice place.

bhauer 13y ago

I agree with what I take as the underlying premise of this blog entry: if you're going to call something a "keyboard for programmers" it would be nice if you made concerted effort to improve matters for programmers, moreso than just tactile ergonomics. However, I have mixed feelings with several of the author's specific points. 1. In general, I think a keyboard should retain all legacy keys, including Scroll Lock and Printscreen because they have acquired specific meaning through their many years. If a new keyboard were paired with a new operating system, then I'd be comfortable--even happy--with disposing of legacy. As it is though, Printscreen is the easiest way to grab a screen-capture or window-capture. 2. The CODE keyboard may be marketed as designed for programmers, but it seems to also carry over a certain "gamer programmer" target. Hence, the PS/2 adapter (I believe some harder-core gamers profess to PS/2 being faster). 3. Space is indeed very important. I am not sure if the author is just pointing that out matter-of-factly or intends it as criticism. I assume the prior. 4. Very much agree that Caps Lock should be diminished in importance. It should be located on some fringe alongside Scroll Lock. Many of my colleagues and I simply disable the key outright. 5. Also agree that backslash should be diminished in importance. However, I personally would like a "programmers keyboard" that made all variations of brackets < > ( ) [ ] { } / \ available (a) without modifier keys of any sort and (b) in side-by-side pairings. It bothers me that / and \ are not side-by-side on most/all keyboards. 6. Strongly disagree that Page Up (and presumably Page Down, although it's not cited by name) is a dumb key. I press Page Up, Page Down, Home, and End hundreds of times per day. 7. I don't actually like that function keys are often trimmed to half-height even on desktop keyboards. That is fine for a laptop. But on my desktop, I have the room for an additional row of full-height keys, thank you. In general, desktop keyboards that are built to laptop aesthetics are dubious to me. 8. Strongly disagree that arrow keys lack importance. I smell a vimmer. Oh, sure enough, he mentions the ADM3A. Please, I beg of you, vimmers: don't pretend to speak for all programmers. 9. Strongly agree with the premise that a programmer's keyboard should avoid use of modifier keys for symbols. I have often ranted that programming language designers should avoid arrow operators -> and => in their syntax because of the shift transition required to type an arrow on most keyboards. I like the premise of this blog entry a great deal! Please, let's see some actual innovation in programmer's keyboards. But apparently, we should have one style for vimmers and one for other programmers. :)

RazerM 13y ago

What's wrong with caps lock? Only when using an editor is there an easy shortcut to capitalise multiple characters at a time. Typing a word in caps using the shift keys is uncomfortable due to alternating which hand presses shift.

jack-r-abbit 13y ago
I thought the same thing. I do wish it was moved though. I probably hit it on accident a few times a week when I was trying to get Tab or Shift.
- Kluny 13y ago
  I've got mine mapped to f6 right now. My capslock is an extra ctrl button, but I might make it esc pretty soon.
chch 13y ago
As someone who uses left-shift nigh exclusively, does this mean you use different shifts for different letters? In general, for typing in ALL CAPS for me, I just rest my little finger on the shift key and then type as normal (at normal speed), but I've never had proper typing form. ;)
- RazerM 13y ago
  Yeah, I type 'properly' with every key belonging to a specific finger. I can only press a few keys belonging to my left index and middle finger while pressing shift, the others require an awkward hand position.
ripter 13y ago
Best thing about the caps lock key is that I can remap it to control. Even when my caps lock key isn't remapped I'll hold down the shift or use my editor. It is uncomfortable to hold the shift key down for long words, but it is so rare that I don't mind.
rza 13y ago
I use caps lock quite often, e.g. for constant variables or acronyms. Then again, I have to remember to turn it off or else my next few key strokes will make vim go crazy.

jasonkester 13y ago

Things I learned from reading this blog post: There are people who use their thumbs to press Alt (or cmd on a mac). That would never have occurred to me (either to do, or that anybody had ever done so). I imagine that explains why keyboard manufacturers are so happy to put garbage keys I don't care about right next to my Shift, Ctrl and Alt keys. Personally, my ideal keyboard would have those expanded and the windows and fn keys removed off to the right side of the spacebar (or to the underside of the computer for the amount of use they actually get).

CatMtKing 13y ago
:O What finger do you use instead? The pinky?
- jasonkester 13y ago
  All the keys in the lower left corner get the pinky, unless the pinky is already holding the shift or ctrl (in which case, hey! I hit it with my thumb! Who knew...) The ones in the lower right can go their entire lives unpressed.
SkyMarshal 13y ago
Fwiw I use the Windows key all the time, on Linux no less. It's either bound to a launcher (Synapse, Gnome-Do), or used in hotkey sequences like Linux control commands ([Win]-[l] = screen lock, etc).
doktrin 13y ago
> * There are people who use their thumbs to press Alt (or cmd on a mac). That would never have occurred to me (either to do, or that anybody had ever done so).* What finger do you use for your left alt key? The thumb has always felt very natural to me, since the use of any other finger would require a significantly longer (and more awkward) travel distance, given the other 4 fingers are somewhere near the home row.
com2kid 13y ago
I use my thumb to press alt, ctrl, and shift! I have a big thumb. :) Also those "garbage keys" are very useful. The Menu key on the right side of your keyboard is, in Windows, a right click button. If I want to spell check something that is marked erroneous (such as "erroneous" when I tried to just spell it!) I can arrow over to it and use my Menu button to pop up a context menu that lets me select the correct word. The Windows keys are also awesome, there are a ton of useful shortcuts bound to them already, and you can always feel free to bind even more! Especially if you are in unix land, where binding keys is easier than on Windows. On Windows, the Windows key is reserved for system commands such as Window management. Win-arrow for docking, win-d to minimize everything, etc. Heck Win-# switches between applications in the order they are open on my task bar! Except for a few misbehaving apps (and the bloody web!), those extra keyboard keys mean the Windows UI is pretty much keyboard driven. I find it funny that people come over to Windows land from *nix and complain about how mouse driven things are! Of course you take take your favorite X windows manager and do all of the remapping yourself to get similar functionality. If you are using one of the keyboard based window managers already, think of it as a way to avoid the need for double bucky key-bindings. The FN key on laptops does suck, but for a lot of smaller laptops with reduced keyboards, there is no other way to access a lot of functionality. Things like back-light controls, external monitor settings, and so forth, are all vital and accessed through fn key combinations. They aren't /often/ used, but they are used often enough!

Coincoin 13y ago

Am I the only one who still uses Shift-Delete and Shift-Insert to cut and paste? I swear when I tell my fellow programmers, they look at me as if I'm from another planet.

Pxtl 13y ago
I honestly had no idea that shift-delete was cut. Either way, "delete" is the key I usually rage about when I'm using a cramped laptop keyboard and can't find it. No, backspace is not an adequate substitute.
nollidge 13y ago
It's definitely a lot easier to use those when I mouse left-handed (as I sometimes do due to pain in my right shoulder).

wesley 13y ago

This is the real, modular keyboard for programmers/hackers: http://acidfire.ca/keyboard/BDY14295.jpg http://acidfire.ca/keyboard/BDY14295.jpg (It's a modular kit, the image above is just one of the configurations, the center part is an addon). You can also have multiple layers, so you could create a dedicated programming layer. All firmware will be open source. It's going to go up on kickstarter soon (when Canada launches in september). More info here: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44940.0 http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44940.0 Some more images (the thread is pretty lengthy): http://acidfire.ca/keyboard/BDY14209.jpg http://acidfire.ca/keyboard/BDY14209.jpg http://acidfire.ca/keyboard/BDY14230.jpg http://acidfire.ca/keyboard/BDY14230.jpg http://acidfire.ca/keyboard/BDY14300.jpg http://acidfire.ca/keyboard/BDY14300.jpg Over the top: http://acidfire.ca/keyboard/BDY14284.jpg http://acidfire.ca/keyboard/BDY14284.jpg Later on more modules will be sold, such as a trackball module that you could place in the center and so on. There's also going to be a portable version: http://acidfire.ca/keyboard/BDY14438.jpg http://acidfire.ca/keyboard/BDY14438.jpg http://acidfire.ca/keyboard/BDY14440.jpg http://acidfire.ca/keyboard/BDY14440.jpg (variation)

seferphier 13y ago
I have ErgoDox too. Nice keyboard stand.
_random_ 13y ago
Looks cool, would consider for under $200.

Pxtl 13y ago

Aaaaand it's dead. The only features I want in a "programming" keyboard that make it different from a normal, vanilla, cheap commodity keyboard: 1) An underscore key in between the space bar and right "ALT". 2) Add the numbers A through F above the numpad. 3) Move the caps-lock key the heck away from its current prime real-estate above the shift-key. If you wanted to be really fancy, a built-in macro recording/playback facility could be handy if I'm working with something exceptionally primitive and need to automate something.

newman314 13y ago

I actually want a KBtalking pro keyboard. The only feature missing for me is the backlit keys.

kylec 13y ago

It sounds like the author is describing the Happy Hacking keyboard: http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?pid=pdkb400b http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?pid=pdkb400b Control where the caps lock key is, escape moved down, and elimination of all unnecessary (and some debatably necessary) keys. It actually looks very close in layout to the diagram in the article of the keyboard that vi was developed on.

9999 13y ago
I have an HHK Pro 2. The Topre keys are great, but they are considerably different than the Cherry MX keys that most mechanical keyboards use (and they're more expensive). The layout is absolutely fantastic. It led me to remap the control key to the capslock key on all of my laptops as well. If anyone is looking to buy an HHK, I would highly recommend buying it from amazon jp to avoid the high markup. Even if you use a third party shipper (like Tenso), you'll still save over the prices that elitekeyboards charges.

geon 13y ago

The site was down for me. Here is the google cache mirror: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.naildrivin5.com/blog/2013/08/29/a-real-keyboard-for-programmers.html&strip=1 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://...

lawn 13y ago

For a self-built, completely programmable keyboard you may feast your eyes on the GH60: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41464 http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41464. It's small, without function keys or numpad, and it comes with different layouts. You're expected to source your own switches and a case. Currently the group buy doesn't accept any new orders, but if you're interested some boards should be sold peer-to-peer.

__mharrison__ 13y ago

I've blogged a bit about what I want in a keyboard [0]. What I'm currently missing is chorded keys for symbols. (ie having them on the home row with a modifier key). I think that would actually help programmers. The problem is is that my Python specific symbols layer is going go be less than optimal for a C/Java/... programmer. 0-http://hairysun.com/blog/2013/04/02/oh-ergonomic-keyboard/ http://hairysun.com/blog/2013/04/02/oh-ergonomic-keyboard/

terhechte 13y ago

Microsoft has a new ergonomic keyboard coming out, with chiclet keys like the Apple Keyboards / Laptops: http://xahlee.info/kbd/Microsoft_sculpt_ergonomic_keyboard.html http://xahlee.info/kbd/Microsoft_sculpt_ergonomic_keyboard.h... I think I'm going to order one of these once they come out. It looks gorgeous, and I'm coding so much these days, I think it would be wise to buy one of these. It also has a detachable number block, which I find great. I need these for Blender 3D work, but apart from that never use them. So I can just stow them away. It also seems to have two space keys. I wonder if it is possible to detect which one is the left or right one. Or remap them. Then I could remap one of them as ESC for vim, for example. That'd be rad.

com2kid 13y ago
> It also has a detachable number block, which I find great. I need these for Blender 3D work, but apart from that never use them. So I can just stow them away. The detachable number block is amazing for ergonomics, it moves your mouse closer to your keyboard, reducing how far out your arm stretches. The keyboard itself is chiclet, which I disprove of. :( I love my key presses to be deep and satisfying! > It also seems to have two space keys. I wonder if it is possible to detect which one is the left or right one. Or remap them. Then I could remap one of them as ESC for vim, for example. That'd be rad. I beta tested the keyboard (woot! I got in because a designer on it heard me complaining about keyboards to a friend!), and funny enough internally the keyboard does know that there is a difference, and from what I understand talking to someone on the team, they originally allowed for some limited remapping abilities of it. From what I gathered the feature confused people and got cut at least in the version of firmware I was handed for it. I am not sure what the situations will be like on release of course! As far as the computer is concerned though, it isn't like with shift where keymaps defined for two of them (AFAIK at least), to make "space" work properly I imagine the keyboard has to report either key as the scancode for "space". IIRC they allowed remapping one of the keys to delete or backspace or something like that, it was actually pretty useful for coding. ESC would also be nice. :) > I think I'm going to order one of these once they come out. It looks gorgeous, and I'm coding so much these days, I think it would be wise to buy one of these. It does look awesome, and it is amazingly comfortable.
13y ago

thedufer 13y ago

It sounds like most people didn't follow the link and read about the actual keyboard. Things that directly contradict complaints in this article: - There is a hardware switch to remap caps lock to CTRL - There is a hardware switch to remap scroll lock to windows lock (temporarily disable the windows key) - The weird context menu button can be hardware-remapped to a Fn key that turns the pageup/dn set of 6 keys into media keys (and Pause into what appears to be Mute) Other neat things: - Hardware switches to swap between QWERTY, Dvorak, and Colemak, as well as to switch the alt/ctrl keys (supposedly useful when used on a mac?) - Backlit - 6-key rollover (n-key over PS/2) Also: a PS/2 keyboard is required to get into BIOS on many (even modern) motherboards. USB usually doesn't register until too late. I'm not really sure why a PS/2 keyboard (or adapter, at least) isn't considered a hard requirement for a hacker's keyboard. The bigger issue is that there's a steep learning curve to moving any of they keys that someone uses. You can't just arbitrarily move things and assume that it'll work for more than a couple dozen people.

vizzah 13y ago

"Stupid keys" PgUp/PgDn??! I wonder how people navigate and read through their source code if not using PageUp/Down. Scrolling with mouse? When one key press can bring you exactly one page forward or backwards. Irreplacable keys for me. I can't code properly on a keyboard which doesn't have these keys under my third and middle finger (making short jumps from the set of 4 arrow keys).

danneu 13y ago
Ctrl-D/U in Vim.

_random_ 13y ago

Can imagine future posts: tea better than coffee, blue better than red etc. That Apple keyboard is rubbish for devs. Arrow keys are perfect as is. Pg Up/Down are useful etc.

sluu99 13y ago

most i agree, except "Stupid keys like Page Up, Scroll Lock, and Insert are gone. They have no place in modern computing." Having the default 2 x 3 insert home pgup; delete end pgdown is my #1 requirement to any keyboard.