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Slightly offtopic: The whole idea of the immigration restrictions is ridiculous. There is not a single justification for it. Unless of course you believe that s

by snitko 13y ago

Slightly offtopic: The whole idea of the immigration restrictions is ridiculous. There is not a single justification for it. Unless of course you believe that somehow your people deserve better than everyone else. When people bring up the fact that it drives down wages and residents lose as a result - why don't they also mention that residents win by getting a cheaper product or a service? When people bring up the welfare question and the fact that foreigners might take advantage of it, why don't they think of a simple solution: not providing it?! The US was built on the hard work of immigrants. People seem to forget this.

corresation 13y ago
"The whole idea of the immigration restrictions is ridiculous. There is not a single justification for it." There are countless justifications for it, but none that you're going to want to hear.
powertower 13y ago
And when people bring up the x-fold increased violent crime rates, and no-go zones, and enclaves, all statistical facts - you say the victims must just be getting their privileges checked, or they're causing it themselves by breaking the social contract. This whole notion that the people in the US are just too stupid and too lazy and too whatever to be able to create jobs is absurd. It takes more than one person to create, fund, build, and grow a company. Stop assigning the job-creation to the “immigrant founder”. There were more people involved in the process.
- snitko 13y ago
  Would you say that immigrants from certain countries are by nature more violent? If you don't believe that, then there must be something else involved. Maybe, it's that they have incentives to become criminals, because they are being denied legal opportunities to work. Maybe, it's because the police is not interested in protecting anyone, but rather is interested in catching illegal aliens for the sake of it and applying violence to them. Nobody asks you to invite immigrants to your backyard. Let them live in their enclaves and don't show up there if you think it's not safe. It doesn't mean both communities can't benefit each other. But what makes you think that somehow you have more right to all the land that doesn't directly belong to you than some guy from a different country? Why do we even have these arbitrary borders? Why is it considered moral to deny people an opportunity to travel and settle down where they like?
kops 13y ago
sure...how about you throw a party at your home and a thousand people show up and want in? Unrestricted anything leads to chaos and trouble.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- snitko 13y ago
  But you don't invite them to your house. What makes you believe that somehow you have more right to land that doesn't directly belong to you than another human being from Earth? America is a big country with plenty of land where many more people could live not bothering each other.
ahamilton 13y ago
> The US was built on the hard work of immigrants. The US was built by the descendants of Europeans who nearly wiped out the existing native population. How did immigration work out for the Native Americans and their descendants?
- walshemj 13y ago
  Who then set up a political system where WASP land owners had more political power than the later RC immigrants from Europe Italians Irish and so on.
- snitko 13y ago
  The reason the native population was wiped out was primarily because of the diseases brought by Europeans, not because Europeans were particularly brutal. In fact, Indians were as brutal to the colonists as colonists were to Indians. The first colonists themselves died in large numbers, mostly due to hunger and malaria. Also, Indians were technologically behind Europeans. Modern western countries, to which immigration is desirable, are more technologically advanced and we certainly don't have a problem with immunity to diseases - at least you can't call it an equally serious problem. So, comparing colonists and indians to the current immigration problems is simply unfounded.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
devilsadvocate8 13y ago
What right do you have to keep me out of your house? If every people that built a society and culture to generate wealth were compelled to take in all comers, there would be none left.

by snitko 13y ago

corresation 13y ago

"The whole idea of the immigration restrictions is ridiculous. There is not a single justification for it." There are countless justifications for it, but none that you're going to want to hear.

powertower 13y ago

And when people bring up the x-fold increased violent crime rates, and no-go zones, and enclaves, all statistical facts - you say the victims must just be getting their privileges checked, or they're causing it themselves by breaking the social contract. This whole notion that the people in the US are just too stupid and too lazy and too whatever to be able to create jobs is absurd. It takes more than one person to create, fund, build, and grow a company. Stop assigning the job-creation to the “immigrant founder”. There were more people involved in the process.

snitko 13y ago
Would you say that immigrants from certain countries are by nature more violent? If you don't believe that, then there must be something else involved. Maybe, it's that they have incentives to become criminals, because they are being denied legal opportunities to work. Maybe, it's because the police is not interested in protecting anyone, but rather is interested in catching illegal aliens for the sake of it and applying violence to them. Nobody asks you to invite immigrants to your backyard. Let them live in their enclaves and don't show up there if you think it's not safe. It doesn't mean both communities can't benefit each other. But what makes you think that somehow you have more right to all the land that doesn't directly belong to you than some guy from a different country? Why do we even have these arbitrary borders? Why is it considered moral to deny people an opportunity to travel and settle down where they like?

kops 13y ago

sure...how about you throw a party at your home and a thousand people show up and want in? Unrestricted anything leads to chaos and trouble.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
snitko 13y ago
But you don't invite them to your house. What makes you believe that somehow you have more right to land that doesn't directly belong to you than another human being from Earth? America is a big country with plenty of land where many more people could live not bothering each other.

ahamilton 13y ago

> The US was built on the hard work of immigrants. The US was built by the descendants of Europeans who nearly wiped out the existing native population. How did immigration work out for the Native Americans and their descendants?

walshemj 13y ago
Who then set up a political system where WASP land owners had more political power than the later RC immigrants from Europe Italians Irish and so on.
snitko 13y ago
The reason the native population was wiped out was primarily because of the diseases brought by Europeans, not because Europeans were particularly brutal. In fact, Indians were as brutal to the colonists as colonists were to Indians. The first colonists themselves died in large numbers, mostly due to hunger and malaria. Also, Indians were technologically behind Europeans. Modern western countries, to which immigration is desirable, are more technologically advanced and we certainly don't have a problem with immunity to diseases - at least you can't call it an equally serious problem. So, comparing colonists and indians to the current immigration problems is simply unfounded.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]

devilsadvocate8 13y ago

What right do you have to keep me out of your house? If every people that built a society and culture to generate wealth were compelled to take in all comers, there would be none left.