4 ms·

Housing strikes me as a pretty hackable problem. There's a lot of space between "residential hotels," Extended Stay America, and Airbnb, and there's a lot of po

by misuba 13y ago

Housing strikes me as a pretty hackable problem. There's a lot of space between "residential hotels," Extended Stay America, and Airbnb, and there's a lot of potential especially in high-rent areas to come in under the cost of studio apartments by a lot, but still not be hovels. If Soylent can find a market, surely there's a market for housing for hackers. (It sounds like this isn't really quite the problem Noisebridge faces, but it's what it made me think of.)

cinquemb 13y ago
This made wonder about the situation with a lot of houses that were foreclosed on over the years that are off the market ("owned" by banks and left in various conditions). I wonder if someone could use the zillow api (or something in the open) in someway to deduce spaces/homes where people could invoke adverse possession and somehow work it into concepts of hackerspaces as far as funding and usage is concerned (maybe with some support of local communities as far as outreach and image is concerned), but with more lax requirements when it comes to allowing people to habitate. IANAL, so all the specifics of how it would work out are hazy to me.
- derleth 13y ago
  I don't see how you'd get around the reason those houses were abandoned in the first place: They have more debt attached to them than they're worth. Buying the house at auction means that you'd be responsible for those debts. I doubt adverse possession would change that. Even if the above were not true, or the debts could be forgiven, the buyer would still be responsible for property taxes, which means they'd need a revenue stream to avoid the government coming to repossess the land. That could be hard to work up.
  - jacalata 13y ago
    No it doesn't. Buying a foreclosed house at auction makes you responsible for the amount you bid on it (and yes, property taxes). The bank would have to eat the remainder of the debt.
    - cinquemb 13y ago
      From looking at this[0], in paragraphs, "actual" and "open and notorious", it seems like one can pay taxes on it without buying it in an auction, while still claiming adverse possession. And to address the how to pay for it aspect, it would raise income like other hacker spaces through "members" (among other ideas the community who works/habitates there decides to do through whatever entity that is the claimant of adverse possession). [0] http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Adverse+possession http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Adverse+posses...
      - varelse 13y ago
        I would counter that if any such properties existed in SF, and there was an opportunity for this sort of arbitrage, it already happened. There are just too many agents scouring this market for bargains at all times for me to believe otherwise. Consider it a weak form of the efficient market hypothesis. In my own experience, any amazing(tm) bargain I encountered over the past 5 years since the crash was quickly bid up to efficient rates. Here's my personal favorite example that I descended upon only to balk at all the offers already in place: http://www.socketsite.com/archives/2011/01/11_offers_and_27_over_asking_yields_9_under_2001_on_pot.html http://www.socketsite.com/archives/2011/01/11_offers_and_27_... That said, you never know until you know...
        cinquemb 13y ago
        >I would counter that if any such properties existed in SF, and there was an opportunity for this sort of arbitrage, it already happened… Consider it a weak form of the efficient market hypothesis… I can agree with what you are saying, but I propose that maybe (having never been/lived in SF) that the types places agents are looking for (quick flips? and off the market for reasons mentioned already) and the types of places that might be suitable for hackerspace group ltd|org|corp|llc (enclosed and with a roof and off the market for reasons mentioned already), if one were to make a venn diagram there would be at least one third agents havent been looking at (maybe less so in sf than in other areas in the country). Or proposed another way, how many homes are being knocked down by banks[0] (and in SF to be relevant)? I'm asking friends who are involved in real estate (not in sf), because talking about this more has got me more interested to see who else I know is up for trying something. [0] http://www.newser.com/story/124793/why-banks-are-knocking-down-foreclosed-homes.html http://www.newser.com/story/124793/why-banks-are-knocking-do...
- varelse 13y ago
  Unless you are a real estate pro, it is utter folly to rent your house out in SF due to the many provisions of the Ellis Act. http://www.sftu.org http://www.sftu.org In here you will find so many overly tenant-friendly rules and rights that unless you can afford a really great lawyer to help you navigate them, it's easy for small time landlords to get screwed over hard. This probably means you. I'm sure these rules were all instituted for good reasons, but IMO they've become an inane and insane entitlement I witnessed their effect personally some years ago when one of the creators of bittorrent invoked the Ellis Act on an ex-girlfriend of mine who wanted to take the top floor of her house off the rental market. He nearly drove her to bankruptcy. I'm not saying this is what always happens, but just seeing it occur once is more than enough to persuade one to never ever even consider being a landlord there.
  - cinquemb 13y ago
    I'm not talking about renting at all. I'm talking about "anyone, including corporations, the federal government, states, and municipal corporations, can be an adverse possessor"[0], but in this case some entity (e.g. hackerspace group ltd|org|corp|llc) that raises funds like traditional hackerspace groups in order to pay property taxes on residential homes that are being claimed in adverse possession. This is just an idea I had in the moment though, but in my eyes, banks will give the most push back, though I'm sure some kinda of deal could be made if mutual ground can be found. [0] http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Adverse+possession http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Adverse+posses...
SixTwo_BlackMan 13y ago
Vacancy rate in San Francisco is quite low.

by misuba 13y ago

cinquemb 13y ago

This made wonder about the situation with a lot of houses that were foreclosed on over the years that are off the market ("owned" by banks and left in various conditions). I wonder if someone could use the zillow api (or something in the open) in someway to deduce spaces/homes where people could invoke adverse possession and somehow work it into concepts of hackerspaces as far as funding and usage is concerned (maybe with some support of local communities as far as outreach and image is concerned), but with more lax requirements when it comes to allowing people to habitate. IANAL, so all the specifics of how it would work out are hazy to me.

derleth 13y ago
I don't see how you'd get around the reason those houses were abandoned in the first place: They have more debt attached to them than they're worth. Buying the house at auction means that you'd be responsible for those debts. I doubt adverse possession would change that. Even if the above were not true, or the debts could be forgiven, the buyer would still be responsible for property taxes, which means they'd need a revenue stream to avoid the government coming to repossess the land. That could be hard to work up.
- jacalata 13y ago
  No it doesn't. Buying a foreclosed house at auction makes you responsible for the amount you bid on it (and yes, property taxes). The bank would have to eat the remainder of the debt.
  - cinquemb 13y ago
    From looking at this[0], in paragraphs, "actual" and "open and notorious", it seems like one can pay taxes on it without buying it in an auction, while still claiming adverse possession. And to address the how to pay for it aspect, it would raise income like other hacker spaces through "members" (among other ideas the community who works/habitates there decides to do through whatever entity that is the claimant of adverse possession). [0] http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Adverse+possession http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Adverse+posses...
    - varelse 13y ago
      I would counter that if any such properties existed in SF, and there was an opportunity for this sort of arbitrage, it already happened. There are just too many agents scouring this market for bargains at all times for me to believe otherwise. Consider it a weak form of the efficient market hypothesis. In my own experience, any amazing(tm) bargain I encountered over the past 5 years since the crash was quickly bid up to efficient rates. Here's my personal favorite example that I descended upon only to balk at all the offers already in place: http://www.socketsite.com/archives/2011/01/11_offers_and_27_over_asking_yields_9_under_2001_on_pot.html http://www.socketsite.com/archives/2011/01/11_offers_and_27_... That said, you never know until you know...
      - cinquemb 13y ago
        >I would counter that if any such properties existed in SF, and there was an opportunity for this sort of arbitrage, it already happened… Consider it a weak form of the efficient market hypothesis… I can agree with what you are saying, but I propose that maybe (having never been/lived in SF) that the types places agents are looking for (quick flips? and off the market for reasons mentioned already) and the types of places that might be suitable for hackerspace group ltd|org|corp|llc (enclosed and with a roof and off the market for reasons mentioned already), if one were to make a venn diagram there would be at least one third agents havent been looking at (maybe less so in sf than in other areas in the country). Or proposed another way, how many homes are being knocked down by banks[0] (and in SF to be relevant)? I'm asking friends who are involved in real estate (not in sf), because talking about this more has got me more interested to see who else I know is up for trying something. [0] http://www.newser.com/story/124793/why-banks-are-knocking-down-foreclosed-homes.html http://www.newser.com/story/124793/why-banks-are-knocking-do...
varelse 13y ago
Unless you are a real estate pro, it is utter folly to rent your house out in SF due to the many provisions of the Ellis Act. http://www.sftu.org http://www.sftu.org In here you will find so many overly tenant-friendly rules and rights that unless you can afford a really great lawyer to help you navigate them, it's easy for small time landlords to get screwed over hard. This probably means you. I'm sure these rules were all instituted for good reasons, but IMO they've become an inane and insane entitlement I witnessed their effect personally some years ago when one of the creators of bittorrent invoked the Ellis Act on an ex-girlfriend of mine who wanted to take the top floor of her house off the rental market. He nearly drove her to bankruptcy. I'm not saying this is what always happens, but just seeing it occur once is more than enough to persuade one to never ever even consider being a landlord there.
- cinquemb 13y ago
  I'm not talking about renting at all. I'm talking about "anyone, including corporations, the federal government, states, and municipal corporations, can be an adverse possessor"[0], but in this case some entity (e.g. hackerspace group ltd|org|corp|llc) that raises funds like traditional hackerspace groups in order to pay property taxes on residential homes that are being claimed in adverse possession. This is just an idea I had in the moment though, but in my eyes, banks will give the most push back, though I'm sure some kinda of deal could be made if mutual ground can be found. [0] http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Adverse+possession http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Adverse+posses...

SixTwo_BlackMan 13y ago

Vacancy rate in San Francisco is quite low.