7 ms·

Homeless hackers head to Noisebridge for shelter

58 points by bifrost 13y ago

irunbackwards 13y ago
There's a pretty large discussion going on about this on the Noisebridge mailing list, just forwarded this link.
- dkuntz2 13y ago
  Is it a public list? Can you post that link?
  - deleted_account 13y ago
    This may be the referenced thread: https://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/2013-August/038836.html https://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/20...
  - timothybone 13y ago
    https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-dis...
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
hobs 13y ago
I like that "I am just hacking this sandwich."
ltcoleman 13y ago
In my opinion, all hacker spaces, co-working spaces, etc. need somebody to be the "bad cop". Building any size community requires members to participate. Tech people in particular are generally less likely to want to cause confrontation, but for the betterment of the community some policing is always needed. It really goes back to respect. Respect the community, and it will respect you back.
- mcpherrinm 13y ago
  Definitely. Maybe Noisebridge is a cool place to be, but I hear stories like this often enough and it really makes me never want to go there. I've been to plenty of other spaces and it can be a cool scene, but Noisebridge's reputation isn't good.
  - cgag 13y ago
    If you're in SF you should stop by sometime, it's still overall a cool place to be, it's easy to get a distorted image of the place through the mailinglist and news articles.
cgag 13y ago
There have been times I've wanted to read in the library at noisebridge, but all the couches are just covered in people sleeping, it's pretty frustrating. I feel for homeless people, but I don't think it should be noisebridge's problem. I know I'm more tolerant than most and it discourages me from coming, I'm sure there are many more who are driven away by it.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
- wsargent 13y ago
  Try the Mechanic's Library, off Market St near the Crocker Galleria.
- infinity0 13y ago
  "not my problem" might seem like a reasonable position to take, but you can extend this argument and eventually conclude it's no-one's problem. or worse, some magical "other party's" (welfare state?) problem. this "not my problem" attitude is a big contribution to income inequality. it's "not my problem" to try to develop basic living conditions in those slums, all I give a shit is about this flashy shopping centre full of non-essentials! not a very good long-term solution for a real problem. as the article says, a more productive approach is to ask, "how do you hack San Francisco's homelessness problem?"
  - GuiA 13y ago
    Not sure what you're trying to say with your post. Solving homelessness is definitely not part of Noisebridge's mission.
  - cgag 13y ago
    I agree, but are you letting homeless people sleep in your house or in your office? Letting them sleep at noisebridge doesn't do much to help the problem in the large, and impairs it as a space to hang out and work on projects with like minded people, which as far as I know is the idea behind noisebridge.
yawnyawn 13y ago
this is enough of an issue that someone started a 'rooster brigade' to wake the sleepers up: https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Rooster_Brigade https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Rooster_Brigade
Matti 13y ago
"I'm about to explain to the people sleeping in the bunk beds that the bunk beds are not for sleeping. It is hard for me to type the above statement without laughing, but I persevere." https://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/2013-August/038854.html https://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/20...
- GuiA 13y ago
  Some context for people who are not familiar with Noisebridge: the bunk beds are meant to provide a designated setting for napping. https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Hacker_Stacker_Napping_Pods https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Hacker_Stacker_Napping_Pods
- SixTwo_BlackMan 13y ago
  All relevant mailing list threads are cataloged here http://shitnoisebridgesays.tumblr.com/ http://shitnoisebridgesays.tumblr.com/
misuba 13y ago
Housing strikes me as a pretty hackable problem. There's a lot of space between "residential hotels," Extended Stay America, and Airbnb, and there's a lot of potential especially in high-rent areas to come in under the cost of studio apartments by a lot, but still not be hovels. If Soylent can find a market, surely there's a market for housing for hackers. (It sounds like this isn't really quite the problem Noisebridge faces, but it's what it made me think of.)
- cinquemb 13y ago
  This made wonder about the situation with a lot of houses that were foreclosed on over the years that are off the market ("owned" by banks and left in various conditions). I wonder if someone could use the zillow api (or something in the open) in someway to deduce spaces/homes where people could invoke adverse possession and somehow work it into concepts of hackerspaces as far as funding and usage is concerned (maybe with some support of local communities as far as outreach and image is concerned), but with more lax requirements when it comes to allowing people to habitate. IANAL, so all the specifics of how it would work out are hazy to me.
  - derleth 13y ago
    I don't see how you'd get around the reason those houses were abandoned in the first place: They have more debt attached to them than they're worth. Buying the house at auction means that you'd be responsible for those debts. I doubt adverse possession would change that. Even if the above were not true, or the debts could be forgiven, the buyer would still be responsible for property taxes, which means they'd need a revenue stream to avoid the government coming to repossess the land. That could be hard to work up.
    - jacalata 13y ago
      No it doesn't. Buying a foreclosed house at auction makes you responsible for the amount you bid on it (and yes, property taxes). The bank would have to eat the remainder of the debt.
amha 13y ago
"And now they’re asking themselves a hard question: how do you hack San Francisco's homelessness problem?"
varelse 13y ago
I once went there for a meeting. It's easy to miss the place because it's in a nondescript residential building in the middle of a somewhat iffy part of the Mission district. I arrived in the middle of a confrontation that almost turned violent. I can't see how anyone could get work done in such a space but maybe I'm just an old fogie. The experience made me really appreciate what I have.
- derleth 13y ago
  > I arrived in the middle of a confrontation that almost turned violent. Lemme guess: Lisp vs Haskell?
  - rbanffy 13y ago
    My favorite tribal thing will always be MSX vs Apple II... Yes. I'm that old.
    - samstave 13y ago
      Slide rule vs vax!
      - zeckalpha 13y ago
        VAX? PDP.
        samstave 13y ago
        eh... its been a while :)
        varelse 13y ago
        Colossal Cave versus The Great Underground Empire? Hurkle versus Mugwump versus Wumpus for the trifecta?
- GuiA 13y ago
  Was it during a Tuesday night weekly meeting? That's when the tribal drama peaks.
bifrost 13y ago
For the record, this is sadly one of the reasons I don't hang out there more. I can deal with bikeshedding and organizational issues, but the threat of bedbugs/violence are not things I am super interested in. I do go there specifically to meet up with people, and I do occasionally hang out on the FreeNode IRC channel, but thats about it these days. I still love the concept of Noisebridge and it needs to exist, but I am not really a participant there right now.
narrator 13y ago
Three easy rules would solve everything: 1. No TVs allowed on premise - Gets rid of slackers, stoners and people who don't like to work. 2. No alcohol - Gets rid of endless trouble and alcoholics. 3. People must shower on a regular basis - Gets rid of the mentally ill.
- j_baker 13y ago
  I'm inclined to say that hacker spaces should have showers. That way there's no excuse. Plus, it makes it easier to work out there as well.
- hmsimha 13y ago
  I haven't been to noisebridge, but I think some kind of requirement of a proactive attitude towards helping out with the space in some way, whether it be creating a banner, moving equipment, solicitation for new paid members, and cleaning would go a great way towards improving the community as well.
deckar01 13y ago
If you can hack together some rent money, you can stay 2 blocks from Noisebridge at 20mission. A lot of my roommates are "hacking" life at Burning Man, but I might see if we can coordinate a Noisebridge group. 20mission.com
SixTwo_BlackMan 13y ago
The article is alarmist, hardly anyone shoots up in the space anymore. https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Meeting_Notes_2013_05_21#DiscussionNotes https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Meeting_Notes_2013_05_21#Di...

58 points by bifrost 13y ago

irunbackwards 13y ago

There's a pretty large discussion going on about this on the Noisebridge mailing list, just forwarded this link.

dkuntz2 13y ago
Is it a public list? Can you post that link?
- deleted_account 13y ago
  This may be the referenced thread: https://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/2013-August/038836.html https://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/20...
- timothybone 13y ago
  https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-dis...

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

hobs 13y ago

I like that "I am just hacking this sandwich."

ltcoleman 13y ago

In my opinion, all hacker spaces, co-working spaces, etc. need somebody to be the "bad cop". Building any size community requires members to participate. Tech people in particular are generally less likely to want to cause confrontation, but for the betterment of the community some policing is always needed. It really goes back to respect. Respect the community, and it will respect you back.

mcpherrinm 13y ago
Definitely. Maybe Noisebridge is a cool place to be, but I hear stories like this often enough and it really makes me never want to go there. I've been to plenty of other spaces and it can be a cool scene, but Noisebridge's reputation isn't good.
- cgag 13y ago
  If you're in SF you should stop by sometime, it's still overall a cool place to be, it's easy to get a distorted image of the place through the mailinglist and news articles.

cgag 13y ago

There have been times I've wanted to read in the library at noisebridge, but all the couches are just covered in people sleeping, it's pretty frustrating. I feel for homeless people, but I don't think it should be noisebridge's problem. I know I'm more tolerant than most and it discourages me from coming, I'm sure there are many more who are driven away by it.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
wsargent 13y ago
Try the Mechanic's Library, off Market St near the Crocker Galleria.
infinity0 13y ago
"not my problem" might seem like a reasonable position to take, but you can extend this argument and eventually conclude it's no-one's problem. or worse, some magical "other party's" (welfare state?) problem. this "not my problem" attitude is a big contribution to income inequality. it's "not my problem" to try to develop basic living conditions in those slums, all I give a shit is about this flashy shopping centre full of non-essentials! not a very good long-term solution for a real problem. as the article says, a more productive approach is to ask, "how do you hack San Francisco's homelessness problem?"
- GuiA 13y ago
  Not sure what you're trying to say with your post. Solving homelessness is definitely not part of Noisebridge's mission.
- cgag 13y ago
  I agree, but are you letting homeless people sleep in your house or in your office? Letting them sleep at noisebridge doesn't do much to help the problem in the large, and impairs it as a space to hang out and work on projects with like minded people, which as far as I know is the idea behind noisebridge.

yawnyawn 13y ago

this is enough of an issue that someone started a 'rooster brigade' to wake the sleepers up: https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Rooster_Brigade https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Rooster_Brigade

Matti 13y ago

"I'm about to explain to the people sleeping in the bunk beds that the bunk beds are not for sleeping. It is hard for me to type the above statement without laughing, but I persevere." https://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/2013-August/038854.html https://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/20...

GuiA 13y ago
Some context for people who are not familiar with Noisebridge: the bunk beds are meant to provide a designated setting for napping. https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Hacker_Stacker_Napping_Pods https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Hacker_Stacker_Napping_Pods
SixTwo_BlackMan 13y ago
All relevant mailing list threads are cataloged here http://shitnoisebridgesays.tumblr.com/ http://shitnoisebridgesays.tumblr.com/

misuba 13y ago

Housing strikes me as a pretty hackable problem. There's a lot of space between "residential hotels," Extended Stay America, and Airbnb, and there's a lot of potential especially in high-rent areas to come in under the cost of studio apartments by a lot, but still not be hovels. If Soylent can find a market, surely there's a market for housing for hackers. (It sounds like this isn't really quite the problem Noisebridge faces, but it's what it made me think of.)

cinquemb 13y ago
This made wonder about the situation with a lot of houses that were foreclosed on over the years that are off the market ("owned" by banks and left in various conditions). I wonder if someone could use the zillow api (or something in the open) in someway to deduce spaces/homes where people could invoke adverse possession and somehow work it into concepts of hackerspaces as far as funding and usage is concerned (maybe with some support of local communities as far as outreach and image is concerned), but with more lax requirements when it comes to allowing people to habitate. IANAL, so all the specifics of how it would work out are hazy to me.
- derleth 13y ago
  I don't see how you'd get around the reason those houses were abandoned in the first place: They have more debt attached to them than they're worth. Buying the house at auction means that you'd be responsible for those debts. I doubt adverse possession would change that. Even if the above were not true, or the debts could be forgiven, the buyer would still be responsible for property taxes, which means they'd need a revenue stream to avoid the government coming to repossess the land. That could be hard to work up.
  - jacalata 13y ago
    No it doesn't. Buying a foreclosed house at auction makes you responsible for the amount you bid on it (and yes, property taxes). The bank would have to eat the remainder of the debt.

amha 13y ago

"And now they’re asking themselves a hard question: how do you hack San Francisco's homelessness problem?"

varelse 13y ago

I once went there for a meeting. It's easy to miss the place because it's in a nondescript residential building in the middle of a somewhat iffy part of the Mission district. I arrived in the middle of a confrontation that almost turned violent. I can't see how anyone could get work done in such a space but maybe I'm just an old fogie. The experience made me really appreciate what I have.

derleth 13y ago
> I arrived in the middle of a confrontation that almost turned violent. Lemme guess: Lisp vs Haskell?
- rbanffy 13y ago
  My favorite tribal thing will always be MSX vs Apple II... Yes. I'm that old.
  - samstave 13y ago
    Slide rule vs vax!
    - zeckalpha 13y ago
      VAX? PDP.
      - samstave 13y ago
        eh... its been a while :)
      - varelse 13y ago
        Colossal Cave versus The Great Underground Empire? Hurkle versus Mugwump versus Wumpus for the trifecta?
GuiA 13y ago
Was it during a Tuesday night weekly meeting? That's when the tribal drama peaks.

bifrost 13y ago

For the record, this is sadly one of the reasons I don't hang out there more. I can deal with bikeshedding and organizational issues, but the threat of bedbugs/violence are not things I am super interested in. I do go there specifically to meet up with people, and I do occasionally hang out on the FreeNode IRC channel, but thats about it these days. I still love the concept of Noisebridge and it needs to exist, but I am not really a participant there right now.

narrator 13y ago

Three easy rules would solve everything: 1. No TVs allowed on premise - Gets rid of slackers, stoners and people who don't like to work. 2. No alcohol - Gets rid of endless trouble and alcoholics. 3. People must shower on a regular basis - Gets rid of the mentally ill.

j_baker 13y ago
I'm inclined to say that hacker spaces should have showers. That way there's no excuse. Plus, it makes it easier to work out there as well.
hmsimha 13y ago
I haven't been to noisebridge, but I think some kind of requirement of a proactive attitude towards helping out with the space in some way, whether it be creating a banner, moving equipment, solicitation for new paid members, and cleaning would go a great way towards improving the community as well.

deckar01 13y ago

If you can hack together some rent money, you can stay 2 blocks from Noisebridge at 20mission. A lot of my roommates are "hacking" life at Burning Man, but I might see if we can coordinate a Noisebridge group. 20mission.com

SixTwo_BlackMan 13y ago

The article is alarmist, hardly anyone shoots up in the space anymore. https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Meeting_Notes_2013_05_21#DiscussionNotes https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Meeting_Notes_2013_05_21#Di...