9 ms·

This sums up more or less why I ditched Rails altogether.

killnine 13y ago
You know, I really don't enjoy frameworks either. For one, I like to know about everything that is in my app. And two, I've been at this long enough to know when you choose a one-size-fits all that means you are trading something for it, usually something I'm not willing to trade. But about 3 hours into a new web app idea this past weekend, I stopped because I'm beginning to see the web dev process as ridiculous. So I started looking around for something that would stream line the process. If you do web development, and you want to build and ship fast, what language do you use?
loupeabody 13y ago
Funny enough, one commenter on this article advocated Rails: "I don't want to start yet another religious war, but for a nice respite from the complexities of J2EE frameworks, check out Ruby on Rails. I'm playing with it now and it is a pleasure to work with." I was actually surprised to see this is from 2005 too...
- astrodust 13y ago
  It was frameworks like the ones Joel was railing against that inspired Rails. A framework should help you do your job, not get in the way.
  - brianmcc 13y ago
    (post was by BenjiSmith, just on Joel's site)
    - astrodust 13y ago
      Ah, good point.
astrodust 13y ago
Ditched...for what?
- banachtarski 13y ago
  Writing my own! You'd be surprised at how lean the code is if you only write what you need. For others, I'd recommend trying one of the lighter weight frameworks (like Sinatra or something if you're into Ruby). Cowboy is good if you're into Erlang. *edit: Perhaps "writing my own" was not the best usage of words. There is a way to provide server services without writing everything from scratch. I use a number of open source libraries but I refuse to fall into the usage of factory factory factory blueprints that bundle tons of features I don't need.
  - wakaflaka 13y ago
    Reinventing the wheel at every turn!
  - nathan_long 13y ago
    Writing your own framework may be the best decision for your project. However, it's almost guaranteed that the next developer on your project would find a known framework with known conventions to be easier to understand. I'm not saying your tradeoff is wrong, just that there is one.
  - grammaton 13y ago
    This is a known anti-pattern.
    - astrodust 13y ago
      The real anti-pattern is "My application is simple, so I don't need a framework". Simple applications are ideal for frameworks. It's the crazy hard stuff where frameworks break down.
      - banachtarski 13y ago
dashoffset 13y ago
Really? IMO, there are many reasons why you would want to ditch Rails, but factories of factories is not one of them.
- banachtarski 13y ago
  It's not just the factories of factories thing. It's actually the amount of cruft that I don't think is really necessary. I find that the pattern for programming with Rails is to find a gem that more or less does what you want and drop it in, at least, on most developer teams I've seen use Rails. What ends up happening is the creation of this bloated monstrosity that performs like crap for a number of unknown reasons.

You know, I really don't enjoy frameworks either. For one, I like to know about everything that is in my app. And two, I've been at this long enough to know when you choose a one-size-fits all that means you are trading something for it, usually something I'm not willing to trade. But about 3 hours into a new web app idea this past weekend, I stopped because I'm beginning to see the web dev process as ridiculous. So I started looking around for something that would stream line the process. If you do web development, and you want to build and ship fast, what language do you use?

loupeabody 13y ago

Funny enough, one commenter on this article advocated Rails: "I don't want to start yet another religious war, but for a nice respite from the complexities of J2EE frameworks, check out Ruby on Rails. I'm playing with it now and it is a pleasure to work with." I was actually surprised to see this is from 2005 too...

astrodust 13y ago
It was frameworks like the ones Joel was railing against that inspired Rails. A framework should help you do your job, not get in the way.
- brianmcc 13y ago
  (post was by BenjiSmith, just on Joel's site)
  - astrodust 13y ago
    Ah, good point.

astrodust 13y ago

Ditched...for what?

banachtarski 13y ago
Writing my own! You'd be surprised at how lean the code is if you only write what you need. For others, I'd recommend trying one of the lighter weight frameworks (like Sinatra or something if you're into Ruby). Cowboy is good if you're into Erlang. *edit: Perhaps "writing my own" was not the best usage of words. There is a way to provide server services without writing everything from scratch. I use a number of open source libraries but I refuse to fall into the usage of factory factory factory blueprints that bundle tons of features I don't need.
- wakaflaka 13y ago
  Reinventing the wheel at every turn!
- nathan_long 13y ago
  Writing your own framework may be the best decision for your project. However, it's almost guaranteed that the next developer on your project would find a known framework with known conventions to be easier to understand. I'm not saying your tradeoff is wrong, just that there is one.
- grammaton 13y ago
  This is a known anti-pattern.
  - astrodust 13y ago
    The real anti-pattern is "My application is simple, so I don't need a framework". Simple applications are ideal for frameworks. It's the crazy hard stuff where frameworks break down.
    - banachtarski 13y ago

dashoffset 13y ago

Really? IMO, there are many reasons why you would want to ditch Rails, but factories of factories is not one of them.

banachtarski 13y ago
It's not just the factories of factories thing. It's actually the amount of cruft that I don't think is really necessary. I find that the pattern for programming with Rails is to find a gem that more or less does what you want and drop it in, at least, on most developer teams I've seen use Rails. What ends up happening is the creation of this bloated monstrosity that performs like crap for a number of unknown reasons.