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While I agree with you that some languages can be prettier than others, I don't really get why this would be a problem, if you're talking about syntax. You coul

by gnaffle 13y ago

While I agree with you that some languages can be prettier than others, I don't really get why this would be a problem, if you're talking about syntax. You could say the same about Javascript, yet projects like Node.js are gaining popularity and are quite popular with the HN crowd. Rather, I think a lot of the gut reaction against PHP comes from the fact that there is a lot of crappy PHP code out there. So if you ever had to deal with some PHP code, it would not be a pleasant experience. Likewise, Java has improved a lot over the years, but the popular way of writing Java code with layers upon layers of abstraction, XML config and build files etc. will just turn a lot of people off, regardless of whether it's possible to write elegant and nice code in that language.

jonahx 13y ago
Well clearly language popularity is a more complex beast than mere aesthetics. I'm only saying they do play a part, and probably a bigger part than most admit. As for js in particular, I'd personally argue that it's "merely plain or average" to php's "plug ugly." Although I wouldn't fight too hard for that point, and I'd note that many people who do serious js development actually do have a big problem with how it looks, and write exclusively in coffeescript.
- snom380 13y ago
  What in particular makes PHP ugly, compared to JS (or Java or C)?
smsm42 13y ago
There is a lot of crappy PHP code out there, it is absolutely true. There is also a lot of crappy English poetry out there and absolutely disgusting and mind-bogglingly stupid English prose out there. And there are people that have to deal with that daily. Should we conclude English is a failure as a language?
- krapp 13y ago
  The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and riffle their pockets for new vocabulary. -- James Nicoll I submit that, indeed, English is the PHP of human languages. It's ugly, its rules are inconsistent and sometimes contradictory, it follows no coherent logical pattern, instead being a hodgepodge of rules and words from various dialects, and it's spoken by too many people who are clearly uneducated, as evinced by their unwillingness to learn to converse in a civilized and syntactically pure tongue.
  - smsm42 13y ago
    If you think other languages are different, you didn't learn those languages thoroughly enough. So you just are saying people suck. Well, sure, so?..

by gnaffle 13y ago

jonahx 13y ago

Well clearly language popularity is a more complex beast than mere aesthetics. I'm only saying they do play a part, and probably a bigger part than most admit. As for js in particular, I'd personally argue that it's "merely plain or average" to php's "plug ugly." Although I wouldn't fight too hard for that point, and I'd note that many people who do serious js development actually do have a big problem with how it looks, and write exclusively in coffeescript.

snom380 13y ago
What in particular makes PHP ugly, compared to JS (or Java or C)?

smsm42 13y ago

There is a lot of crappy PHP code out there, it is absolutely true. There is also a lot of crappy English poetry out there and absolutely disgusting and mind-bogglingly stupid English prose out there. And there are people that have to deal with that daily. Should we conclude English is a failure as a language?

krapp 13y ago
The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and riffle their pockets for new vocabulary. -- James Nicoll I submit that, indeed, English is the PHP of human languages. It's ugly, its rules are inconsistent and sometimes contradictory, it follows no coherent logical pattern, instead being a hodgepodge of rules and words from various dialects, and it's spoken by too many people who are clearly uneducated, as evinced by their unwillingness to learn to converse in a civilized and syntactically pure tongue.
- smsm42 13y ago
  If you think other languages are different, you didn't learn those languages thoroughly enough. So you just are saying people suck. Well, sure, so?..