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This may be the quiet beginning of a revolution. A shift in not only the public perception of all-electric/non-petroleum vehicles, but also in their availabilit

by arjn 13y ago

This may be the quiet beginning of a revolution. A shift in not only the public perception of all-electric/non-petroleum vehicles, but also in their availability and affordability.

JoeAltmaier 13y ago
I wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't Tesla's game plan all along. Start with cool; move into affordable.
- joejohnson 13y ago
  It was. Musk stated exactly that in 2006: http://www.teslamotors.com/fr_CH/blog/secret-tesla-motors-master-plan-just-between-you-and-me http://www.teslamotors.com/fr_CH/blog/secret-tesla-motors-ma...
- mbreese 13y ago
  This is every car makers strategy too... most (all?) of the gadgets and safety gear that are available in modern lower-end cars were developed in higher priced product lines (or even racing models). Power locks/windows, Satnav, power steering, anti-lock brakes, etc... The higher margins help pay for the development of what will be standard features 5-10 years down the road.
Wilya 13y ago
Affordability and availability ? This is silly. Tesla is making electric cars that rich people would actually buy. Not low-end electric cars for the masses.
- scott_s 13y ago
  Everyone has assumed (or have they explicitly stated?) that they are using the research, development and sales of the expensive cars to lead towards building and selling cheaper cars.
  - dylandrop 13y ago
    Again, see (http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/tesla-to-introduce-new-30000-compact-sedan-as-electric-car-company-expands-its-charging-network/ http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/tesla-to-introduce-new-300...). It's not an unfounded assumption, because it has been stated many times by Musk & Co. Just search "tesla 30k car", you'll see it's not just a rumor.
- dylandrop 13y ago
  Tesla often cites that it started out in the luxury car market to recoup R&D costs and entry costs (getting their first factory, etc.), and have mentioned multiple times that they're planning on building a ~30k car within the next 5 years or so (http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/tesla-to-introduce-new-30000-compact-sedan-as-electric-car-company-expands-its-charging-network/ http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/tesla-to-introduce-new-300...). So no, this is not silly.
  - miratrix 13y ago
    The problem is that once you get down to ~$30k pure electric car, you're going to end up something that looks like the Nissan Leaf, even 5 years from now. There is no magical Tesla dust that allows them to circumvent the laws of physics and economics. The problem is in the batteries - Tesla Model S batteries come in 60 and 85 kWhr capacities. Using the most generous specific energy estimates and the price estimates (265 Whr/kg and 2.5 Whr/US$ - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery), you're looking at 500 to 700 lb of extra weight and $24k~$32k due to batteries alone. Even if the price halves in 5 years, you can't make money spending up to half the price of the car in batteries alone. As a premium car, Tesla can charge the extra money required for the large battery pack and things like all aluminum chassis in Model S. At the lowered price point, the revenue just is not there to justify these things. This basically means that to hit the $30k price point, you're going to end up with a much smaller battery pack (like Leaf's 24kWhr battery pack) and much smaller car so that they can hit the (lowered) performance target in both the driving characteristics (acceleration, top speed, etc which depend greatly on curb weight) and range (weight and battery capacity). If you look at the engineering trade-offs required to get to $30k pure electric car in 5 year timeframe, it's hard to imagine something drastically different from Nissan Leaf in range, size, and driving characteristics.
    - qbrass 13y ago
      A $30k Tesla doesn't have to differ drastically in range, size, and driving characteristics over the Leaf. As long as they make something that doesn't look ghastly, it's already got an advantage over the Nissan. They don't need to profit directly on the low end cars, they're looking at increasing the number of Tesla owners, which will help to push pro-Tesla agenda and sell charging stations or other Tesla technologies.

by arjn 13y ago

This may be the quiet beginning of a revolution. A shift in not only the public perception of all-electric/non-petroleum vehicles, but also in their availability and affordability.

JoeAltmaier 13y ago

I wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't Tesla's game plan all along. Start with cool; move into affordable.

joejohnson 13y ago
It was. Musk stated exactly that in 2006: http://www.teslamotors.com/fr_CH/blog/secret-tesla-motors-master-plan-just-between-you-and-me http://www.teslamotors.com/fr_CH/blog/secret-tesla-motors-ma...
mbreese 13y ago
This is every car makers strategy too... most (all?) of the gadgets and safety gear that are available in modern lower-end cars were developed in higher priced product lines (or even racing models). Power locks/windows, Satnav, power steering, anti-lock brakes, etc... The higher margins help pay for the development of what will be standard features 5-10 years down the road.

Wilya 13y ago

Affordability and availability ? This is silly. Tesla is making electric cars that rich people would actually buy. Not low-end electric cars for the masses.

scott_s 13y ago
Everyone has assumed (or have they explicitly stated?) that they are using the research, development and sales of the expensive cars to lead towards building and selling cheaper cars.
- dylandrop 13y ago
  Again, see (http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/tesla-to-introduce-new-30000-compact-sedan-as-electric-car-company-expands-its-charging-network/ http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/tesla-to-introduce-new-300...). It's not an unfounded assumption, because it has been stated many times by Musk & Co. Just search "tesla 30k car", you'll see it's not just a rumor.
dylandrop 13y ago
Tesla often cites that it started out in the luxury car market to recoup R&D costs and entry costs (getting their first factory, etc.), and have mentioned multiple times that they're planning on building a ~30k car within the next 5 years or so (http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/tesla-to-introduce-new-30000-compact-sedan-as-electric-car-company-expands-its-charging-network/ http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/tesla-to-introduce-new-300...). So no, this is not silly.
- miratrix 13y ago
  The problem is that once you get down to ~$30k pure electric car, you're going to end up something that looks like the Nissan Leaf, even 5 years from now. There is no magical Tesla dust that allows them to circumvent the laws of physics and economics. The problem is in the batteries - Tesla Model S batteries come in 60 and 85 kWhr capacities. Using the most generous specific energy estimates and the price estimates (265 Whr/kg and 2.5 Whr/US$ - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery), you're looking at 500 to 700 lb of extra weight and $24k~$32k due to batteries alone. Even if the price halves in 5 years, you can't make money spending up to half the price of the car in batteries alone. As a premium car, Tesla can charge the extra money required for the large battery pack and things like all aluminum chassis in Model S. At the lowered price point, the revenue just is not there to justify these things. This basically means that to hit the $30k price point, you're going to end up with a much smaller battery pack (like Leaf's 24kWhr battery pack) and much smaller car so that they can hit the (lowered) performance target in both the driving characteristics (acceleration, top speed, etc which depend greatly on curb weight) and range (weight and battery capacity). If you look at the engineering trade-offs required to get to $30k pure electric car in 5 year timeframe, it's hard to imagine something drastically different from Nissan Leaf in range, size, and driving characteristics.
  - qbrass 13y ago
    A $30k Tesla doesn't have to differ drastically in range, size, and driving characteristics over the Leaf. As long as they make something that doesn't look ghastly, it's already got an advantage over the Nissan. They don't need to profit directly on the low end cars, they're looking at increasing the number of Tesla owners, which will help to push pro-Tesla agenda and sell charging stations or other Tesla technologies.