4 ms·

> This is the first I'm hearing of it Here in Germany it's pretty common. I'm living in an apartment building where it is impossible to get a credit card. It'

> This is the first I'm hearing of it Here in Germany it's pretty common. I'm living in an apartment building where it is impossible to get a credit card. It's not only me - all neighbors I asked have the same problem. Looks like one of our neighbors has a catastrophic credit rating and is pulling down the rest of us. I heard similar stories from friends who were able to get a loan only after moving.

simoncion 13y ago
That is insane. How is that rationalized by the credit card companies?
- kybernetyk 13y ago
  I guess statistically ;) They take average paying morale in a neighborhood into account. But I guess one very bad seed can spoil pull down a otherwise good/average neighborhood.
  - bougiefever 13y ago
    All the more reason to open a private mailbox and conceal your real address from banks, employers, and when making purchases. Also, since I live outside of the city, shipping is cheaper too. I doubt the UPS store has a bad credit rating.
    - wyclif 13y ago
      For many consumers, their bank already knows their physical address since they have their home loan through the same bank.
      - bougiefever 13y ago
        The original post sounded like they were renting, so yea, your mortgage holder knows the address of the house you bought, but your bank does not need to know the address where you are renting. A personal mailbox is not going to shield your private address from every entity, but it can help with many. Also, the mortgage holder does not know if you are still living in that house, especially if you list a different address.
    - mh- 13y ago
      you don't think that their databases also identifies CMRAs? they are well known addresses. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_mail_receiving_agency http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_mail_receiving_agenc... https://ribbs.usps.gov/index.cfm?page=mtcsa https://ribbs.usps.gov/index.cfm?page=mtcsa (you can also google for dpv cmra)
  - jk4930 13y ago
    Usually one bad apple won't kill the area rating, they filter for that. Image search for "schuldneratlas" (a detailed map of private households in distress) to get some impressions. Or see there: http://www.boniversum.de/schuldneratlas/ http://www.boniversum.de/schuldneratlas/
  - simoncion 13y ago
    That's very strange. IMO, it might make sense to operate on the "Folks with bad credit tend to cluster" intuition for folks who have no established credit history, seeing as how you don't have any other data on them. However, it makes no sense to do this for people who have an established track record. I'm sure as hell not going to stop honoring my financial obligations just because I moved into a building with some deadbeat debtor (or worse, just because the debtor moved in to the building!). Do these creditors think that people have the moral fortitude of five-year-olds?!
- a3n 13y ago
  Data, I suppose. They want to make as many loans as possible. The want to loan you money or grant credit. But if they find a correlation that indicates too much risk they'll say no. The questions then are, is the correlation real, and is doing the correlation legal in the local jurisdiction.
- hannibal5 13y ago
  Maximizing expected value. You make more profit even when you take into account all the false positives. Profiling people (who have nothing to hide) gives banks and insurance companies huge advantage. It may look insane in personal level, but there is solid math behind many of their descisions.
aestra 13y ago
Sometimes utility companies require a deposit before turning on your utilities at a certain address, I'm sure it is because they have had non-paying customers at that address before.
- mrt0mat0 13y ago
  that happened to me. i was in great standing with my electric company (DTE, I've never missed a payment in the last 10 years) but because the previous tenant had not paid their bill, not only did i have to prove i was a new tenant, i had to put a huge deposit down.
  - aestra 13y ago
    Yep, me too. It sucked, cause moving just doesn't have enough expenses already. Apparently my great credit score is meaningless, more important was the previous tenants were deadbeats. Morgan Spurlock also had to pay a deposit in his show 30 Days, and he commented about how it was the first time in his life he had to pay a deposit, and it must have been the address he was living in. (He was living with a minimum wage for 30 days in the episode, so he moved into a low rent apartment in Ohio.)
freehunter 13y ago
In the US, we call that redlining [1]. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining
- SilasX 13y ago
  That's not what redlining means. Redlining is when you discriminate against people based on where they live (or in where your loan will let them live), not on who they live with.
  - markdown 13y ago
    > Redlining is when you discriminate against people based on where they live Reread the comment. It's exactly what you describe, down to the actual building. People living in a particular apartment complex can't get a credit card.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
  - freehunter 13y ago
    Why do you think banks deny credit for areas? Because they don't like the geographical layout? Because that river throws off their feng shui? Or is it because a large number of people living nearby have defaulted or are predicted to default on a loan?

simoncion 13y ago

That is insane. How is that rationalized by the credit card companies?

kybernetyk 13y ago
I guess statistically ;) They take average paying morale in a neighborhood into account. But I guess one very bad seed can spoil pull down a otherwise good/average neighborhood.
- bougiefever 13y ago
  All the more reason to open a private mailbox and conceal your real address from banks, employers, and when making purchases. Also, since I live outside of the city, shipping is cheaper too. I doubt the UPS store has a bad credit rating.
  - wyclif 13y ago
    For many consumers, their bank already knows their physical address since they have their home loan through the same bank.
    - bougiefever 13y ago
      The original post sounded like they were renting, so yea, your mortgage holder knows the address of the house you bought, but your bank does not need to know the address where you are renting. A personal mailbox is not going to shield your private address from every entity, but it can help with many. Also, the mortgage holder does not know if you are still living in that house, especially if you list a different address.
  - mh- 13y ago
    you don't think that their databases also identifies CMRAs? they are well known addresses. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_mail_receiving_agency http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_mail_receiving_agenc... https://ribbs.usps.gov/index.cfm?page=mtcsa https://ribbs.usps.gov/index.cfm?page=mtcsa (you can also google for dpv cmra)
- jk4930 13y ago
  Usually one bad apple won't kill the area rating, they filter for that. Image search for "schuldneratlas" (a detailed map of private households in distress) to get some impressions. Or see there: http://www.boniversum.de/schuldneratlas/ http://www.boniversum.de/schuldneratlas/
- simoncion 13y ago
  That's very strange. IMO, it might make sense to operate on the "Folks with bad credit tend to cluster" intuition for folks who have no established credit history, seeing as how you don't have any other data on them. However, it makes no sense to do this for people who have an established track record. I'm sure as hell not going to stop honoring my financial obligations just because I moved into a building with some deadbeat debtor (or worse, just because the debtor moved in to the building!). Do these creditors think that people have the moral fortitude of five-year-olds?!
a3n 13y ago
Data, I suppose. They want to make as many loans as possible. The want to loan you money or grant credit. But if they find a correlation that indicates too much risk they'll say no. The questions then are, is the correlation real, and is doing the correlation legal in the local jurisdiction.
hannibal5 13y ago
Maximizing expected value. You make more profit even when you take into account all the false positives. Profiling people (who have nothing to hide) gives banks and insurance companies huge advantage. It may look insane in personal level, but there is solid math behind many of their descisions.

aestra 13y ago

Sometimes utility companies require a deposit before turning on your utilities at a certain address, I'm sure it is because they have had non-paying customers at that address before.

mrt0mat0 13y ago
that happened to me. i was in great standing with my electric company (DTE, I've never missed a payment in the last 10 years) but because the previous tenant had not paid their bill, not only did i have to prove i was a new tenant, i had to put a huge deposit down.
- aestra 13y ago
  Yep, me too. It sucked, cause moving just doesn't have enough expenses already. Apparently my great credit score is meaningless, more important was the previous tenants were deadbeats. Morgan Spurlock also had to pay a deposit in his show 30 Days, and he commented about how it was the first time in his life he had to pay a deposit, and it must have been the address he was living in. (He was living with a minimum wage for 30 days in the episode, so he moved into a low rent apartment in Ohio.)

freehunter 13y ago

In the US, we call that redlining [1]. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining

SilasX 13y ago
That's not what redlining means. Redlining is when you discriminate against people based on where they live (or in where your loan will let them live), not on who they live with.
- markdown 13y ago
  > Redlining is when you discriminate against people based on where they live Reread the comment. It's exactly what you describe, down to the actual building. People living in a particular apartment complex can't get a credit card.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
- freehunter 13y ago
  Why do you think banks deny credit for areas? Because they don't like the geographical layout? Because that river throws off their feng shui? Or is it because a large number of people living nearby have defaulted or are predicted to default on a loan?