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The article espouses a nice theory, but I can think of some pretty big holes, especially relating to differing cultures and indeed our own historical experience
by sho 17y ago
The article espouses a nice theory, but I can think of some pretty big holes, especially relating to differing cultures and indeed our own historical experience. Musicians were not always the revered gods they are today. Back in 16th century England, I can't imagine the neighbourhood bard being more of a chick-puller than, say, the rich merchant.
Culture plays a huge part too. I was speaking to one of my Chinese friends the other day and was struck by something she said about the popular boys in her school. I asked what made the boys popular - she replied that, amongst other desirable traits, they got good grades. Needless to say this does not apply in any western society I've been a member of. Rather the opposite, in fact.
In a society edging towards post-scarcity, perhaps the desirability of conspicuous displays of wasted energy, like being "cool" or whatever, move to the fore. But in a society still climbing the developmental ladder, I just don't see it. Not to say that the theory lacks any merit at all - the conspicuous waste thing could well be a big factor, like how people buy ridiculously expensive watches just to show they can. But I don't see how it "evolved" when even the west has been like this for only half a century or so.
A more likely explanation for the sexual allure of popular musicians is their perceived wealth, exciting and interesting lives, boasting rights over ones' friends, and over society in general. The same thing can be seen, mapped into a different context, in the Chinese experience - good grades at school = good university = good job = all of the above benefits. I would posit this is a more likely explanation than the "evolved waste" theory.
- baguasquirrel 17y agoYoko Ono found that Beatles dude pretty attractive. In my general experience, people from other cultures find certain loud and ostentatious Westerners with few redeeming qualities (I jest, I jest!) attractive, even when they do not find that attraction among their own. In other words, I do not think that your observation and the post are incompatible. Context matters.
- buggy_code 17y agoAs a Chinese American guy with great grades, I believe your friend is full of BS (unless she's "Chinese" in that she actually lives in China). In HS / College, I've never seen good grades = popularity.
- potatolicious 17y agoI believe that's precisely what he meant - in Asia guys with good grades are valued quite highly by the womenfolk. That being said, IMHO this is temporary - girls will still go for the bad biker dude (or its Asian equivalent) in the end.
- sho 17y agoYes, she's from Shanghai. I have no reason to think she is lying.
- leecho0 17y agoI think it has lots to do with cultural values. I went to elementary school in Taiwan for 4 years. In an asian education environment, you need to take exams after exams to get into good schools to get a good job. Not to say it isn't the same in the states, but it's on a different level. In junior high school, it isn't uncommon to see kids stay at school for 14 hours plus to study months on end. Most schools have rankings for midterms/finals, and some give out a slap on the wrist for every point under 90 (at least when I went to school) to reinforce the importance of studying. So being bad academically is more like losing a school wide competition, rather than the American system of being able to shrug it off as something you don't care about. In Asian countries, they don't buy the idea that people can be talented at different things, it's more a black and white "you're smart or you're not" thing. So of course people like winners more than losers. So back to the point in the article.. I don't think it's about the actual utility of a person's skill, but the perceived successfulness within the context of societal values. Which brings up an interesting point: other than using the societal values, how else will you know how successful a person is when real success is often based on luck and isn't apparent until ~30?
- potatolicious 17y agoKeep in mind that Shanghai has its own local culture that is quite (in)famous throughout China and the Pacific Rim, so her experiences may not be applicable to China as a wider whole.
- gaius 17y ago
- rivo 17y agoTaht's pretty much my experience. Being a musician myself, I tend not to have problems with female attention in Western countries. I also met lots of Chinese girls in my life and they looked at me like they felt sorry I couldn't do better than that. I'd don't like to generalize but that's what happened to me. And I'd like to add that Chinese != Japanese (re: Yoko Ono).
- biohacker42 17y ago...she replied that, amongst other desirable traits, they got good grades. Needless to say this does not apply in any western society I've been a member of. Rather the opposite, in fact. No, I'm European, been to school in both east and west Europe, and America, and the above is true for Europe as well. The most popular kids are always charming AND smart. Only in America does it seem like good grades are bad thing. But make no mistake socially challenged kids with straight As are NOT popular. The key is to be both socially and academically smart.
- gaius 17y agoOnly in America does it seem like good grades are bad thing And the UK.
- biohacker42 17y agoWhen talking to Americans I don't distinguish between the continent and the isles, but I do when talking to anyone from Europe. The UK is also the one most similar to the US, for obvious reasons. Also I think class may play a big role in who's popular in the UK, I suspect the kids at Eaton don't feel the same way.