5 ms·

You probably put to much stock in the whole "I've never been through the imaging machines" bit. It's not about remaining opt-out puritan or something. Fight whe

You probably put to much stock in the whole "I've never been through the imaging machines" bit. It's not about remaining opt-out puritan or something. Fight when you can. I hope op reads this, buried in all the other comments. Please, for the sake of everyone, dust yourself off and opt out again. It doesn't matter if you do it every time. I opt out every time I can, but there have been plenty of times when I don't. There's been times when I didn't have time to catch my flight, or my stress levels were bordering on unmanageable, or I didn't want to miss that wedding at any cost. One time, I felt like I had to pee too bad to risk waiting for a screening. So kick off your shoes, empty your pockets, and take the freedom stance on the mat of defiance. Hold your arms out with pride and hope that someone on the other side of the security barrier sees you and decides to opt out as well.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
- eloisius 13y ago
  Some fights are worth fighting if only to retain your dignity. I won't volunteer my rights; if they want them they will have to take them by force (i.e., the threat of not being allowed to travel). I won't do them the favor of ignoring the gun in the room.
  - cavilling_elite 13y ago
    Agreed, I opt-out every time I can. This gives me a chance to talk to the TSA agent. This puts human faces on the, typically, blurry screen of human mass. When they ask why I opt-out, I explain about the numerous times I have filled out the comment cards mentioning the real danger of cataracts because you don't tell people to close their eyes. Explain that my engineering background fully understands both the x-ray and mm-wave technology. I explain that even the weak, yet not disclosed, powers of mm-wave back scatter can, over time, cause damage to your eyes. This gives them something to think about, that isn't the typical "freedom" complaint they hear. I hope, one day, to overhear a TSA agent tell people to close their eyes. First, the threat to your eyes is real. But, my underline reason is by making people close their eyes it will give a sense of vulnerability that the current systems don't have. I am hoping, one day, that this is the tipping point needed for more people to opt-out. An engineer can dream.
    - takluyver 13y ago
      Can you elaborate on the risk to eyes? I've not heard about this, and Wikipedia doesn't mention it, either for mm-wave or backscatter (I hadn't even realised there were two different technologies in use until now). What kind of risk level are we talking about? Do your eyelids offer any real protection against it?
      - zombio 13y ago
        I'd also like to know.
        cavilling_elite 13y ago
        see above, pls.
      - cavilling_elite 13y ago
        As far as I can tell, the x-ray works similar to the dentist office. While, the basic idea behind the active backscatter mm-wave is similar to radar. It is my understanding that the majority of the TSA owned mm-wave machines are active. You have a number of antennas that pulse and listen. I would need to look up the specs, but I suspect they are in the 75 GHz range which is above the oxygen absorption (60 GHz) but below more expensive technologies in the 100+ GHz range. There are a number of "cheap" technologies that have emerged for radar in this range on the market at the 75 GHz frequency, and I think it is being driven by this technology. All in all, the mm-wave at the powers they use are harmless. The depth of penetration to the skin is sub millimeter and your body dissipates any heat that would be generated. It is most likely a pulsed system and your overall exposure time is small. But, the most fragile part of your body is your eyes. The capillary blood vessels are much smaller and wouldn't dissipate the heat as readily as the body. And it is my professional opinion, that overtime, it could do damage to your lenses and cause cataracts. I would love to get a grant to study these effects. As far as I have seen, there are no IEEE specs on specific absorption rates (how much heat energy is created by being irradiated with a source), they are typically categorized as "body", "head", and "appendages". If anyone has information on specific body parts (I personally need it for teeth and fingernail work I do) I would be very interested in the FDA specific absorption rates. When you close your eyes your eyelids will dissipate any heat generated and the mm-wave will not penetrate through the skin. One interesting test would be if anyone could get what the images look like, and see if you can tell where the eyes are. If there there is a difference in the backscatter, that would mean that the mm-wave is being absorbed differently in the soft tissue of the eye. In my professional opinion, just close your eyes. If you fly once a year, it probably isn't a big deal. If you fly all the time, I would close my eyes.
- malka 13y ago
  "be the change you want to see in the world" OP, you lost a battle, not the war.
keithg 13y ago
I agree. I will continue to opt out.
trekky1700 13y ago
Or take the train.
- fixxer 13y ago
  TSA is going there. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/06/us/tsa-expands-duties-beyond-airport-security.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/06/us/tsa-expands-duties-beyo...
  - alan_cx 13y ago
    Air travel locked down by armed guards, searching and demanding identity, now trains. What's next, buses? Then what, UK levels of CCTV, face recognition motorway(freeway) cameras? Oh yeah, we Brits have those. What is the limit here, can we expect check points on roads? Add to that comprehensive, industrial slurping of all electronic data and metadata. Almost forgot, a mostly compliant and controlled media and a political class who knows the NSA have all their personal data from 10 odd years. Damn, another one.... a huge military intelligence industrial complex which "donates" a fair amount of money to both US political parties, and of course expect nothing in return. (BTW, isn't the military the biggest and most powerful union in the US?). Freedom of movement, gone. Freedom of expression, monitored. Political freedom and independence, bought. Anything left? Is picking the channel on a TV or chose our clothes all the freedom we humans need? Heh, I could even make an argument that those are also controlled, at least highly manipulated. At times like this I want to kick Godwin in the nuts.
    - thaumaturgy 13y ago
      > What's next, buses? http://rt.com/usa/tsa-bus-safe-houston-403/ http://rt.com/usa/tsa-bus-safe-houston-403/ > What is the limit here, can we expect check points on roads? http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2013/08/12/130812fa_fact_stillman?currentPage=all http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2013/08/12/130812fa_fact_...
    - lightyrs 13y ago
      Even Godwin himself said that his law has been misinterpreted. http://reason.com/archives/2005/07/14/hands-off-hitler http://reason.com/archives/2005/07/14/hands-off-hitler
pvdm 13y ago
Resist. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4Ku17CqdZg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4Ku17CqdZg

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

eloisius 13y ago
Some fights are worth fighting if only to retain your dignity. I won't volunteer my rights; if they want them they will have to take them by force (i.e., the threat of not being allowed to travel). I won't do them the favor of ignoring the gun in the room.
- cavilling_elite 13y ago
  Agreed, I opt-out every time I can. This gives me a chance to talk to the TSA agent. This puts human faces on the, typically, blurry screen of human mass. When they ask why I opt-out, I explain about the numerous times I have filled out the comment cards mentioning the real danger of cataracts because you don't tell people to close their eyes. Explain that my engineering background fully understands both the x-ray and mm-wave technology. I explain that even the weak, yet not disclosed, powers of mm-wave back scatter can, over time, cause damage to your eyes. This gives them something to think about, that isn't the typical "freedom" complaint they hear. I hope, one day, to overhear a TSA agent tell people to close their eyes. First, the threat to your eyes is real. But, my underline reason is by making people close their eyes it will give a sense of vulnerability that the current systems don't have. I am hoping, one day, that this is the tipping point needed for more people to opt-out. An engineer can dream.
  - takluyver 13y ago
    Can you elaborate on the risk to eyes? I've not heard about this, and Wikipedia doesn't mention it, either for mm-wave or backscatter (I hadn't even realised there were two different technologies in use until now). What kind of risk level are we talking about? Do your eyelids offer any real protection against it?
    - zombio 13y ago
      I'd also like to know.
      - cavilling_elite 13y ago
        see above, pls.
    - cavilling_elite 13y ago
      As far as I can tell, the x-ray works similar to the dentist office. While, the basic idea behind the active backscatter mm-wave is similar to radar. It is my understanding that the majority of the TSA owned mm-wave machines are active. You have a number of antennas that pulse and listen. I would need to look up the specs, but I suspect they are in the 75 GHz range which is above the oxygen absorption (60 GHz) but below more expensive technologies in the 100+ GHz range. There are a number of "cheap" technologies that have emerged for radar in this range on the market at the 75 GHz frequency, and I think it is being driven by this technology. All in all, the mm-wave at the powers they use are harmless. The depth of penetration to the skin is sub millimeter and your body dissipates any heat that would be generated. It is most likely a pulsed system and your overall exposure time is small. But, the most fragile part of your body is your eyes. The capillary blood vessels are much smaller and wouldn't dissipate the heat as readily as the body. And it is my professional opinion, that overtime, it could do damage to your lenses and cause cataracts. I would love to get a grant to study these effects. As far as I have seen, there are no IEEE specs on specific absorption rates (how much heat energy is created by being irradiated with a source), they are typically categorized as "body", "head", and "appendages". If anyone has information on specific body parts (I personally need it for teeth and fingernail work I do) I would be very interested in the FDA specific absorption rates. When you close your eyes your eyelids will dissipate any heat generated and the mm-wave will not penetrate through the skin. One interesting test would be if anyone could get what the images look like, and see if you can tell where the eyes are. If there there is a difference in the backscatter, that would mean that the mm-wave is being absorbed differently in the soft tissue of the eye. In my professional opinion, just close your eyes. If you fly once a year, it probably isn't a big deal. If you fly all the time, I would close my eyes.
malka 13y ago
"be the change you want to see in the world" OP, you lost a battle, not the war.

keithg 13y ago

I agree. I will continue to opt out.

trekky1700 13y ago

Or take the train.

fixxer 13y ago
TSA is going there. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/06/us/tsa-expands-duties-beyond-airport-security.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/06/us/tsa-expands-duties-beyo...
- alan_cx 13y ago
  Air travel locked down by armed guards, searching and demanding identity, now trains. What's next, buses? Then what, UK levels of CCTV, face recognition motorway(freeway) cameras? Oh yeah, we Brits have those. What is the limit here, can we expect check points on roads? Add to that comprehensive, industrial slurping of all electronic data and metadata. Almost forgot, a mostly compliant and controlled media and a political class who knows the NSA have all their personal data from 10 odd years. Damn, another one.... a huge military intelligence industrial complex which "donates" a fair amount of money to both US political parties, and of course expect nothing in return. (BTW, isn't the military the biggest and most powerful union in the US?). Freedom of movement, gone. Freedom of expression, monitored. Political freedom and independence, bought. Anything left? Is picking the channel on a TV or chose our clothes all the freedom we humans need? Heh, I could even make an argument that those are also controlled, at least highly manipulated. At times like this I want to kick Godwin in the nuts.
  - thaumaturgy 13y ago
    > What's next, buses? http://rt.com/usa/tsa-bus-safe-houston-403/ http://rt.com/usa/tsa-bus-safe-houston-403/ > What is the limit here, can we expect check points on roads? http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2013/08/12/130812fa_fact_stillman?currentPage=all http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2013/08/12/130812fa_fact_...
  - lightyrs 13y ago
    Even Godwin himself said that his law has been misinterpreted. http://reason.com/archives/2005/07/14/hands-off-hitler http://reason.com/archives/2005/07/14/hands-off-hitler

pvdm 13y ago

Resist. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4Ku17CqdZg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4Ku17CqdZg