22 ms·

I feel like you would get a similar result if you did a map of Paris or other big european cities, I'm not sure it's an american thing. I think over here we jus

by simias 13y ago

I feel like you would get a similar result if you did a map of Paris or other big european cities, I'm not sure it's an american thing. I think over here we just don't like/can't compile that kind of racial data. I would be more interested in counter-examples: cities were the melting pot is the rule.

icecreampain 13y ago
Making race maps in Europe would get you shot, your family hanged and all your friends deemed social outcasts forever. For example: the Swedish crime prevention board (BRÅ) no longer publish crime statistics containing ethnic background information. They stopped a few years ago (2006) when the PC media found out that africans and arabs were way, way over-represented in all crime categories. This is due to political correctness - something that the US seems to have been spared from. So far.
- hearty778 13y ago
  This is not quite true in the US, since the FBI classifies Hispanics in the "white" category, obscuring crime data between non-Hispanic whites and Hispanics.
- simias 13y ago
  The problem with this kind of statistic is that it doesn't really teach us much: "Hey, impoverished communities have a higher rate of criminality! Who would have thought!" while at the same time giving arguments for the far right to simplify the issues and reach simple conclusions. Maybe there are cases where these statistics could be legitimately useful, but I'm not aware of any.
  - hyperpape 13y ago
    I don't think this is remotely true. Compiling the statistics does not commit you to a particular use. Obviously, people can abuse them, but here's an example from just this month of a case where you're glad to have the racial breakdown, because it clues you in to a piece of good news and a possible root cause: http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/08/lead-crime-racism-black-white-juvenile http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/08/lead-crime-rac...
  - guard-of-terra 13y ago
    Impoverished communities are a problem here. For some reason whether you have a community of muslims or africans, it happens to be impoverished. On the other hand, if you have a community of asians or western europeans, it doesn't. That's exactly the problem parent is trying to convey. It's not that africans are inherently criminal, it's just that they have dangerous group dynamics.
    - bdunbar 13y ago
      > On the other hand, if you have a community of asians or western europeans, it doesn't. I might be mis-understanding the context here: I've been to a few impoverished communities composed of 98% descendants of Western Europeans. Think: white trash.
      - newnewnew 13y ago
        And they commit only a fraction of the amount of crime of their black counter-parts: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6279991 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6279991
- noir_lord 13y ago
  You can go too far from reality with political correctness but you can go just as far in the other direction with the "lack" of political correctness. The US has a much higher tolerance for what in Europe would be considered pretty blatant racism. I think that Political Correctness for the most part says we should treat everyone equally whether we like them or not which is the rational approach as I'm sure there are groups that don't like me (I'm a white middle class hard-line atheist so that probably gets me on a few lists right there). I'd sooner live in a country with "political correctness gone mad" (a frequently cry of the right wing press here) than one where it hasn't. We have politicians here condemning the Human Rights act because it makes them guarantee the rights for everyone even people "the majority don't like" which is exactly as it should be since the people "the majority don't like" can change so rapidly. Of course in America you have been spared the political correctness gone mad but you are still executing mentally retarded people in some states so maybe you could do with the political correctness going a bit "mad". “You can judge a society by how well it treats its prisoners”. - Dostoevsky
  - barry-cotter 13y ago
    The US has a much higher tolerance for what in Europe would be considered pretty blatant racism. Please expand. Nowhere in Europe has anything resembling the 4/5ths rule or Griggs vs Duke Power, no European country has a visible minority community as large as Blacks in the US, and no European country has a policy of discriminating on the basis of race in university admissions, to the best of my knowledge.
    - drone 13y ago
      Not to mention, if The Golden Dawn tried to start a political party here, they would be laughed off the stage, not given 21 seats in the house. I think the OP should point out to some actual studies about how much more blatantly racist Americans/America are/is than Europe/Europeans.
  - JPKab 13y ago
    Perhaps you and I have a different idea on what "Political Correctness" actually is. My view is that many mistake Scientifically Correct from Politically Correct. It is Scientifically Correct to say that there is very little difference, genetically, between Europeans, Asians, Africans, Latin Americans, etc. It also happens to be Politically Correct. However, it is also Scientifically Correct to say that there are huge disparities in victim reported violent crime rates between Europeans, Asians, Africans, and Latin Americans. However, this is not Politically Correct. This is an example of where a problem is identified, but unable to be discussed in the public sphere. If a problem can't be discussed, it can't be solved. An African-American male is over 7 times more likely to murder a person than a Hispanic or European-American male. He is also over 6 times more likely to be the victim of a murder. This is elementary statistics based on data collected by the FBI. If this problem (which in my opinion is cultural rather than this phony construct called "racial") can't be discussed in an honest fashion due to political organizations which will threaten politicians with boycotts/villification/etc due to their refusal to acknowledge inconvenient truths, then the problem will simply continue. Not talking about it makes the problem become uglier, because non-Black Americans in general have internalized the fact that poor Black neighborhoods are vastly more violent and dangerous. Any realtor can tell you this. They deal with people's ACTUAL prejudices every day, rather than the Politically Correct, aspirational notions of the desire to live in a diverse neighborhood. I say this as a white guy who grew up in various poor parts of the south, and spent large parts of my childhood with mostly black friends in mostly black neighborhoods. Political Correctness prevents us from collectively helping the predominantly black victims of a large sub-culture of black America that celebrates crime, dehumanizes women and gays, views educational/career achievement as betrayal of black identity, and tolerate men who willingly abandon their families. America will not succeed as a nation unless black Americans succeed, and political correctness throws them to the wolves by pretending a problem they are victimized by doesn't exist.
- knowtheory 13y ago
  Or, it could be that the police are overly vigilant, or even racist against non-white Swedes, and arrest and incarcerate them at a rate disproportionate to the actual rate of crime. Stop and Frisk in NYC overwhelmingly targets blacks and latinos, to the point where it's been declared unconstitutional, for example.
  - asdfdsa1234 13y ago
    Crime victim surveys corroborate those figures.
    - knowtheory 13y ago
      Just to be clear, corroborate which figures?
  - newnewnew 13y ago
    Mayor Bloomberg claims that stop and frisk under-targets blacks and hispanics, given the percentage of crime committed[1]. It will be interesting to see if NY becomes Detroit in its absence. NYC is notable for having a lower level of crime than you would expect given its ethnic makeup. [1] http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/whites_subjected_to_too_many_stop_QM64S34uJ37zoJ36auG0HM http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/whites_subjected_to_too_m...
- bowlofpetunias 13y ago
  It's interesting that if a European uses an ethnic reference as an insult or joke it's interpreted as a sign that Europeans are more racist than Americans, but if Europeans balk at racial profiling it's considered extreme political correctness on the part of the Europeans. I would suggest the complete opposite is true, on both counts.
- Shivetya 13y ago
  spared? Really? Where I live they don't give the race of the assailant out, but its assumed and unfortunately all too correctly as to what it is. I am quite sure a few high up in Washington would like it as such here in the US. Two in particular, our President and Attorney General, seem to go out of their way to jump on racial issues as if its some type of popularity thing, they unfortunately come across as desperate. Spared my butt, we just do our best to tune it out because its bombarded at us through media and government daily. Like the boy who cried wolf, when you cry wolf so many times when there is none no one will listen when there is.
- ninjin 13y ago
  > They stopped a few years ago (2006) when the PC media found out that africans and arabs were way, way over-represented in all crime categories. I would love to see a reference verifying the causality that you are implying when it comes to the decision to drop ethnicity from the statistics. Also, I sincerely doubt that those of African and Arab ethnicity are over-represented in all crime categories. Violence, petty theft, sure, possibly. This is generally the category which the low-income portion of the population tends to dominate. But I think you will be hard pressed to find a document showing that the ethnics groups you are referencing are more prevalent when it comes to tax fraud.
  - guard-of-terra 13y ago
    You don't have to verify the causality. "media found out that africans and arabs were way, way over-represented in all [violent] crime categories" AND THEN "the Swedish crime prevention board (BRÅ) no longer publish crime statistics containing ethnic background information" is hilarious enough already.
  - yummyfajitas 13y ago
    Also, I sincerely doubt that those of African and Arab ethnicity are over-represented in all crime categories...tax fraud. [Citation needed] Oops, statistics are secret. Doh!
- pygy_ 13y ago
  When you control for income and other social factors, it turns out that race is not a risk factor for committing crime.
  - icecreampain 13y ago
    Either (1) it's true for where you live or (2) you're lying. Page 46 of BRÅs 1996 report (http://galnegunnarsblogg.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/bra-1996-2-invandrares-och-invandrares-barns-brottslighet.pdf http://galnegunnarsblogg.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/bra-199...) says the following: "Invandrares överrepresentation i brottslighet beror inte på en ogynnsam fördelning vad gäller kön, ålder eller bostadsort. Den beror inte heller på en generellt sett låg socioekonomisk status (mätt genom s.k. SEI-kod) i Sverige." "Immigrants overrepresented in crime is not due to an unfavorable distribution in terms of gender, age or place of residence. It does not depend on the generally low socioeconomic status (as measured by the so-called SEI code) in Sweden." And now it's your turn: citation needed.
    - pygy_ 13y ago
      That's what a sociologist/statistician friend of mine[0] told me. I don't have a citation to back it up, but I think he does. I'll ask him if he can provide it. He lives in Belgium (I used to), and I don't know to which part of the world he was referring to (probably Belgium and/or surrounding countries). -- 0. http://progcours.ulg.ac.be/cocoon/en/enseignant/U191908.html http://progcours.ulg.ac.be/cocoon/en/enseignant/U191908.html
- Xylakant 13y ago
  > This is due to political correctness - something that the US seems to have been spared from. So far. The reasons for such a move are mixed. Some part is certainly PC, some other part is that the segregation along "race boundaries" is actually misleading. Income class and eduction is usually a way better boundary when segregating crime statistics. However, for a long list of reasons, africans and arabs (or people moving into the country in general) are over-represented in the poorer classes and underrepresented in the richer class which in turn makes them appear stronger in crime statistics. Another reason is that statistics are often read the wrong way, a problem that occurs very often with the official german crime stats: The most often cited statistic is the "Polizeibericht [1]", but that lists reported crimes - so everything that ever gets reported to the police. Some of those reports never get prosecuted, some get acquitted at trial, ... The police report in Berlin used to list all reports where the perpetrators nationality was unknown as "foreign", an error that seriously skewed the stats for any cursory reader. Statistics like that are a very weak datapoint - useful if you know how to read them, useless or even dangerous for most cases where they're cited. This misrepresentation of public data leads to a certain caution in publishing stats by the persons in charge. Back to the Topic: I don't think that maps of that kind would get you shot, hanged or made outcast in Europe. Quite to the contrary, such maps exist and do provide valuable insight - though the same caveats that apply for the statistics apply here as well. As an example here's a map of how many non-germans live in berlin by quarter: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/7/7d/Bev%C3%B6lkerungskarten_berlin.png http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/7/7d/Bev%C3%B6lkeru... (top left). It's not as fine-grained as the one discussed here, but that's probably more due to unavailability of finer data. More maps of germany in the official report by the "Statistisches Bundesamt" https://www.destatis.de/DE/Publikationen/Thematisch/Bevoelkerung/MigrationIntegration/AuslaendBevoelkerung2010200117004.pdf?__blob=publicationFile https://www.destatis.de/DE/Publikationen/Thematisch/Bevoelke... [1] The official name is Polizeiliche Kriminalstatistik (PKS) https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polizeiliche_Kriminalstatistik_(Deutschland) https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polizeiliche_Kriminalstatistik...
- newnewnew 13y ago
  Steve Sailer found out that American schools are really good when you break down test scores by race[1]. For example, the white American population does better on international tests than most European populations, American hispanics do better than all Latin American countries, and etc. Unfortunately, the original article is not available because VDARE is having a fundraiser[2], but why not drop a dollar to keep Steve in business? Since then, US government has stopped publishing PISA test scores by race. It's embarrassing for people on all sides of the aisle, including right-wing school reform movements that need the purported terribleness of American schools for their political momentum. [1] http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_4ify7vDXrDs/TRFeGl7ocuI/AAAAAAAAGzo/Or4W468_WK4/s1600/PISA_Intl_Scores.png http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_4ify7vDXrDs/TRFeGl7ocuI/AAAAAAAAGz... [2] http://www.vdare.com/articles/pisa-scores-show-demography-is-destiny-in-education-too-but-washington-doesnt-want-you-to-k http://www.vdare.com/articles/pisa-scores-show-demography-is...
- ris 13y ago
  "Making race maps in Europe would get you shot, your family hanged and all your friends deemed social outcasts forever." My heart bleeds for you persecuted middle class whites. Oh, the pain and injustice you must endure!
wozniacki 13y ago
Some findings from the European Minorities and Discrimination Survey: (The results present the first EU-wide comparable data on selected ethnic minorities and immigrants’ experiences of discrimination and criminal victimisation, including experiences of policing) • On average, every second Roma and 4 in 10 Sub Saharan African interviewees was discriminated against on the basis of their ethnicity at least once in the last 12 months. • 82% of those who were discriminated against on the basis of their ethnicity/immigrant background in the last 12 months did not report their last experience of discrimination anywhere – either at the place where it occurred or to a complaints body. • On average, 1 in 5 Sub-Saharan African and Roma respondents were victims of what they considered to be‘racially motivated’assault or threat, or serious harassment, at least once in the last 12 months. • Depending on the groups surveyed,between 57%and 74% of incidents of assault or threat were not reported to the police. • Of those who were stopped by the police in the last 12 months, on average 17% of North Africans and 14%of Roma considered that they were stopped specifically because of their ethnic or immigrant background. Source: http://fra.europa.eu/en/press-release/2010/first-ever-eu-wide-survey-minorities-mapping-discrimination-across-europe http://fra.europa.eu/en/press-release/2010/first-ever-eu-wid... http://fra.europa.eu/sites/default/files/fra_uploads/664-eumidis_mainreport_conference-edition_en_.pdf http://fra.europa.eu/sites/default/files/fra_uploads/664-eum... [ PDF ] Edit: Formatting
rayiner 13y ago
The overriding trend in American cities is that whites will not live in predominantly black or hispanic neighborhoods.[1] But the reverse is generally not true. So you see much less segregation in predominantly white cities like Portland than in cities like Chicago that have an even mix of races, which have less segregation than predominantly black cities like Detroit or New Orleans. As far as I can tell, most European cities are predominantly white, so I wouldn't expect as much segregation in those cities as you see in say Chicago or Detroit or Philadelphia. London is one of the more ethnically diverse (large) Western European cities, and is roughly 60% white. LA is the whitest large American city at 50%. New York is 45%, Chicago is 30%, etc. New Orleans is around 25% white, and Detroit is 8% white. At the other end of the scale, Portland is 75% white. If you look at the map, the ordering by level of segregation follows that pattern: Portland is the least segregated, Detroit is the most segregated, and LA, New York, Chicago, and New Orleans are between, in that order. [1] You can argue about whether this is racism or classism. As a practical matter, in American cities the two are tightly linked. Middle class people of both races tend to move to the suburbs, and of the people that are left, whites skew wealthier and blacks and hispanics skew poorer, even more so than in the general population. E.g. The median income of a white Chicagoan in 2009 was $64k (substantially above the national average). The median income of a black Chicagoan in 2009 was $29k (substantially below the national average). http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-muckrakers/2011/02/second-city-or-dead-last-income-apartheid-in-chicago http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-muckrakers/2011/02/second-....
- doktrin 13y ago
  > As far as I can tell, most European cities are predominantly white I think your impression is flawed. Many European cities are racially diverse and quite a few are segregated. Paris comes to mind as a particularly good example of both.
  - rayiner 13y ago
    A city can be racially diverse and also predominantly white. London, for example, is a metropolitan, racially diverse city that is nonetheless 60% white. I'm not denying that there are European cities that are racially diverse. But every single U.S. city over a million people, and most of the cities between 500,000 and 1 million, are majority-minority, usually by a large margin (say 2:1). I think that's a phenomenon that's alien to major European cities. As an aside, I think Europeans unfairly jump to calling Americans racist, when they don't have to deal with the political dynamics of majority-minority cities. It's one thing for a city to be diverse. It's another thing when the dominant ethnic group of a country ends up being a minority in the city, in the process losing political control, etc. Add to that the layer of economic conflict that arises from tax revenues flowing from the richer majority to pay for municipal services for the poorer majority. That creates a wholly different political dynamic, one that is alien to Europeans. Look at Paris. There is tremendous tension there between whites and Arabs. But the Muslim population of Paris is only 10-15% (estimated). What would the political dynamic in France be like if Paris were 60-70% Muslim and hadn't elected a non-Muslim mayor in 40 years, yet still relied on whites for most of the tax revenue? I would hazard a guess that the French would handle it a lot worse than the Americans have been doing in similar situations...
bostonvaulter2 13y ago
Honolulu would count in my opinion, which is partially because I would break out "Asian" into at least Japanese, Chinese, Filipino, and other Asian. Even without that breakdown Honolulu doesn't have any majority (although Asian is really close at 46%). And 19.93% of people with two or more races (compared to 4.7% for SF and 3.9% for Boston) Map: http://i.imgur.com/Z0X8Prs.jpg http://i.imgur.com/Z0X8Prs.jpg A little hard to see from the map but although Asian is obviously predominant, the other races are sprinkled throughout besides for a few exceptions: a rich area in the bottom right and a few military bases/housing which have much higher white/black and very little asian. Demographics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honolulu_County,_Hawaii#Demographics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honolulu_County,_Hawaii#Demogra...

by simias 13y ago

icecreampain 13y ago

Making race maps in Europe would get you shot, your family hanged and all your friends deemed social outcasts forever. For example: the Swedish crime prevention board (BRÅ) no longer publish crime statistics containing ethnic background information. They stopped a few years ago (2006) when the PC media found out that africans and arabs were way, way over-represented in all crime categories. This is due to political correctness - something that the US seems to have been spared from. So far.

hearty778 13y ago
This is not quite true in the US, since the FBI classifies Hispanics in the "white" category, obscuring crime data between non-Hispanic whites and Hispanics.
simias 13y ago
The problem with this kind of statistic is that it doesn't really teach us much: "Hey, impoverished communities have a higher rate of criminality! Who would have thought!" while at the same time giving arguments for the far right to simplify the issues and reach simple conclusions. Maybe there are cases where these statistics could be legitimately useful, but I'm not aware of any.
- hyperpape 13y ago
  I don't think this is remotely true. Compiling the statistics does not commit you to a particular use. Obviously, people can abuse them, but here's an example from just this month of a case where you're glad to have the racial breakdown, because it clues you in to a piece of good news and a possible root cause: http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/08/lead-crime-racism-black-white-juvenile http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/08/lead-crime-rac...
- guard-of-terra 13y ago
  Impoverished communities are a problem here. For some reason whether you have a community of muslims or africans, it happens to be impoverished. On the other hand, if you have a community of asians or western europeans, it doesn't. That's exactly the problem parent is trying to convey. It's not that africans are inherently criminal, it's just that they have dangerous group dynamics.
  - bdunbar 13y ago
    > On the other hand, if you have a community of asians or western europeans, it doesn't. I might be mis-understanding the context here: I've been to a few impoverished communities composed of 98% descendants of Western Europeans. Think: white trash.
    - newnewnew 13y ago
      And they commit only a fraction of the amount of crime of their black counter-parts: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6279991 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6279991
noir_lord 13y ago
You can go too far from reality with political correctness but you can go just as far in the other direction with the "lack" of political correctness. The US has a much higher tolerance for what in Europe would be considered pretty blatant racism. I think that Political Correctness for the most part says we should treat everyone equally whether we like them or not which is the rational approach as I'm sure there are groups that don't like me (I'm a white middle class hard-line atheist so that probably gets me on a few lists right there). I'd sooner live in a country with "political correctness gone mad" (a frequently cry of the right wing press here) than one where it hasn't. We have politicians here condemning the Human Rights act because it makes them guarantee the rights for everyone even people "the majority don't like" which is exactly as it should be since the people "the majority don't like" can change so rapidly. Of course in America you have been spared the political correctness gone mad but you are still executing mentally retarded people in some states so maybe you could do with the political correctness going a bit "mad". “You can judge a society by how well it treats its prisoners”. - Dostoevsky
- barry-cotter 13y ago
  The US has a much higher tolerance for what in Europe would be considered pretty blatant racism. Please expand. Nowhere in Europe has anything resembling the 4/5ths rule or Griggs vs Duke Power, no European country has a visible minority community as large as Blacks in the US, and no European country has a policy of discriminating on the basis of race in university admissions, to the best of my knowledge.
  - drone 13y ago
    Not to mention, if The Golden Dawn tried to start a political party here, they would be laughed off the stage, not given 21 seats in the house. I think the OP should point out to some actual studies about how much more blatantly racist Americans/America are/is than Europe/Europeans.
- JPKab 13y ago
  Perhaps you and I have a different idea on what "Political Correctness" actually is. My view is that many mistake Scientifically Correct from Politically Correct. It is Scientifically Correct to say that there is very little difference, genetically, between Europeans, Asians, Africans, Latin Americans, etc. It also happens to be Politically Correct. However, it is also Scientifically Correct to say that there are huge disparities in victim reported violent crime rates between Europeans, Asians, Africans, and Latin Americans. However, this is not Politically Correct. This is an example of where a problem is identified, but unable to be discussed in the public sphere. If a problem can't be discussed, it can't be solved. An African-American male is over 7 times more likely to murder a person than a Hispanic or European-American male. He is also over 6 times more likely to be the victim of a murder. This is elementary statistics based on data collected by the FBI. If this problem (which in my opinion is cultural rather than this phony construct called "racial") can't be discussed in an honest fashion due to political organizations which will threaten politicians with boycotts/villification/etc due to their refusal to acknowledge inconvenient truths, then the problem will simply continue. Not talking about it makes the problem become uglier, because non-Black Americans in general have internalized the fact that poor Black neighborhoods are vastly more violent and dangerous. Any realtor can tell you this. They deal with people's ACTUAL prejudices every day, rather than the Politically Correct, aspirational notions of the desire to live in a diverse neighborhood. I say this as a white guy who grew up in various poor parts of the south, and spent large parts of my childhood with mostly black friends in mostly black neighborhoods. Political Correctness prevents us from collectively helping the predominantly black victims of a large sub-culture of black America that celebrates crime, dehumanizes women and gays, views educational/career achievement as betrayal of black identity, and tolerate men who willingly abandon their families. America will not succeed as a nation unless black Americans succeed, and political correctness throws them to the wolves by pretending a problem they are victimized by doesn't exist.
knowtheory 13y ago
Or, it could be that the police are overly vigilant, or even racist against non-white Swedes, and arrest and incarcerate them at a rate disproportionate to the actual rate of crime. Stop and Frisk in NYC overwhelmingly targets blacks and latinos, to the point where it's been declared unconstitutional, for example.
- asdfdsa1234 13y ago
  Crime victim surveys corroborate those figures.
  - knowtheory 13y ago
    Just to be clear, corroborate which figures?
- newnewnew 13y ago
  Mayor Bloomberg claims that stop and frisk under-targets blacks and hispanics, given the percentage of crime committed[1]. It will be interesting to see if NY becomes Detroit in its absence. NYC is notable for having a lower level of crime than you would expect given its ethnic makeup. [1] http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/whites_subjected_to_too_many_stop_QM64S34uJ37zoJ36auG0HM http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/whites_subjected_to_too_m...
bowlofpetunias 13y ago
It's interesting that if a European uses an ethnic reference as an insult or joke it's interpreted as a sign that Europeans are more racist than Americans, but if Europeans balk at racial profiling it's considered extreme political correctness on the part of the Europeans. I would suggest the complete opposite is true, on both counts.
Shivetya 13y ago
spared? Really? Where I live they don't give the race of the assailant out, but its assumed and unfortunately all too correctly as to what it is. I am quite sure a few high up in Washington would like it as such here in the US. Two in particular, our President and Attorney General, seem to go out of their way to jump on racial issues as if its some type of popularity thing, they unfortunately come across as desperate. Spared my butt, we just do our best to tune it out because its bombarded at us through media and government daily. Like the boy who cried wolf, when you cry wolf so many times when there is none no one will listen when there is.
ninjin 13y ago
> They stopped a few years ago (2006) when the PC media found out that africans and arabs were way, way over-represented in all crime categories. I would love to see a reference verifying the causality that you are implying when it comes to the decision to drop ethnicity from the statistics. Also, I sincerely doubt that those of African and Arab ethnicity are over-represented in all crime categories. Violence, petty theft, sure, possibly. This is generally the category which the low-income portion of the population tends to dominate. But I think you will be hard pressed to find a document showing that the ethnics groups you are referencing are more prevalent when it comes to tax fraud.
- guard-of-terra 13y ago
  You don't have to verify the causality. "media found out that africans and arabs were way, way over-represented in all [violent] crime categories" AND THEN "the Swedish crime prevention board (BRÅ) no longer publish crime statistics containing ethnic background information" is hilarious enough already.
- yummyfajitas 13y ago
  Also, I sincerely doubt that those of African and Arab ethnicity are over-represented in all crime categories...tax fraud. [Citation needed] Oops, statistics are secret. Doh!
pygy_ 13y ago
When you control for income and other social factors, it turns out that race is not a risk factor for committing crime.
- icecreampain 13y ago
  Either (1) it's true for where you live or (2) you're lying. Page 46 of BRÅs 1996 report (http://galnegunnarsblogg.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/bra-1996-2-invandrares-och-invandrares-barns-brottslighet.pdf http://galnegunnarsblogg.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/bra-199...) says the following: "Invandrares överrepresentation i brottslighet beror inte på en ogynnsam fördelning vad gäller kön, ålder eller bostadsort. Den beror inte heller på en generellt sett låg socioekonomisk status (mätt genom s.k. SEI-kod) i Sverige." "Immigrants overrepresented in crime is not due to an unfavorable distribution in terms of gender, age or place of residence. It does not depend on the generally low socioeconomic status (as measured by the so-called SEI code) in Sweden." And now it's your turn: citation needed.
  - pygy_ 13y ago
    That's what a sociologist/statistician friend of mine[0] told me. I don't have a citation to back it up, but I think he does. I'll ask him if he can provide it. He lives in Belgium (I used to), and I don't know to which part of the world he was referring to (probably Belgium and/or surrounding countries). -- 0. http://progcours.ulg.ac.be/cocoon/en/enseignant/U191908.html http://progcours.ulg.ac.be/cocoon/en/enseignant/U191908.html
Xylakant 13y ago
> This is due to political correctness - something that the US seems to have been spared from. So far. The reasons for such a move are mixed. Some part is certainly PC, some other part is that the segregation along "race boundaries" is actually misleading. Income class and eduction is usually a way better boundary when segregating crime statistics. However, for a long list of reasons, africans and arabs (or people moving into the country in general) are over-represented in the poorer classes and underrepresented in the richer class which in turn makes them appear stronger in crime statistics. Another reason is that statistics are often read the wrong way, a problem that occurs very often with the official german crime stats: The most often cited statistic is the "Polizeibericht [1]", but that lists reported crimes - so everything that ever gets reported to the police. Some of those reports never get prosecuted, some get acquitted at trial, ... The police report in Berlin used to list all reports where the perpetrators nationality was unknown as "foreign", an error that seriously skewed the stats for any cursory reader. Statistics like that are a very weak datapoint - useful if you know how to read them, useless or even dangerous for most cases where they're cited. This misrepresentation of public data leads to a certain caution in publishing stats by the persons in charge. Back to the Topic: I don't think that maps of that kind would get you shot, hanged or made outcast in Europe. Quite to the contrary, such maps exist and do provide valuable insight - though the same caveats that apply for the statistics apply here as well. As an example here's a map of how many non-germans live in berlin by quarter: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/7/7d/Bev%C3%B6lkerungskarten_berlin.png http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/7/7d/Bev%C3%B6lkeru... (top left). It's not as fine-grained as the one discussed here, but that's probably more due to unavailability of finer data. More maps of germany in the official report by the "Statistisches Bundesamt" https://www.destatis.de/DE/Publikationen/Thematisch/Bevoelkerung/MigrationIntegration/AuslaendBevoelkerung2010200117004.pdf?__blob=publicationFile https://www.destatis.de/DE/Publikationen/Thematisch/Bevoelke... [1] The official name is Polizeiliche Kriminalstatistik (PKS) https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polizeiliche_Kriminalstatistik_(Deutschland) https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polizeiliche_Kriminalstatistik...
newnewnew 13y ago
Steve Sailer found out that American schools are really good when you break down test scores by race[1]. For example, the white American population does better on international tests than most European populations, American hispanics do better than all Latin American countries, and etc. Unfortunately, the original article is not available because VDARE is having a fundraiser[2], but why not drop a dollar to keep Steve in business? Since then, US government has stopped publishing PISA test scores by race. It's embarrassing for people on all sides of the aisle, including right-wing school reform movements that need the purported terribleness of American schools for their political momentum. [1] http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_4ify7vDXrDs/TRFeGl7ocuI/AAAAAAAAGzo/Or4W468_WK4/s1600/PISA_Intl_Scores.png http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_4ify7vDXrDs/TRFeGl7ocuI/AAAAAAAAGz... [2] http://www.vdare.com/articles/pisa-scores-show-demography-is-destiny-in-education-too-but-washington-doesnt-want-you-to-k http://www.vdare.com/articles/pisa-scores-show-demography-is...
ris 13y ago
"Making race maps in Europe would get you shot, your family hanged and all your friends deemed social outcasts forever." My heart bleeds for you persecuted middle class whites. Oh, the pain and injustice you must endure!

wozniacki 13y ago

Some findings from the European Minorities and Discrimination Survey: (The results present the first EU-wide comparable data on selected ethnic minorities and immigrants’ experiences of discrimination and criminal victimisation, including experiences of policing) • On average, every second Roma and 4 in 10 Sub Saharan African interviewees was discriminated against on the basis of their ethnicity at least once in the last 12 months. • 82% of those who were discriminated against on the basis of their ethnicity/immigrant background in the last 12 months did not report their last experience of discrimination anywhere – either at the place where it occurred or to a complaints body. • On average, 1 in 5 Sub-Saharan African and Roma respondents were victims of what they considered to be‘racially motivated’assault or threat, or serious harassment, at least once in the last 12 months. • Depending on the groups surveyed,between 57%and 74% of incidents of assault or threat were not reported to the police. • Of those who were stopped by the police in the last 12 months, on average 17% of North Africans and 14%of Roma considered that they were stopped specifically because of their ethnic or immigrant background. Source: http://fra.europa.eu/en/press-release/2010/first-ever-eu-wide-survey-minorities-mapping-discrimination-across-europe http://fra.europa.eu/en/press-release/2010/first-ever-eu-wid... http://fra.europa.eu/sites/default/files/fra_uploads/664-eumidis_mainreport_conference-edition_en_.pdf http://fra.europa.eu/sites/default/files/fra_uploads/664-eum... [ PDF ] Edit: Formatting

rayiner 13y ago

The overriding trend in American cities is that whites will not live in predominantly black or hispanic neighborhoods.[1] But the reverse is generally not true. So you see much less segregation in predominantly white cities like Portland than in cities like Chicago that have an even mix of races, which have less segregation than predominantly black cities like Detroit or New Orleans. As far as I can tell, most European cities are predominantly white, so I wouldn't expect as much segregation in those cities as you see in say Chicago or Detroit or Philadelphia. London is one of the more ethnically diverse (large) Western European cities, and is roughly 60% white. LA is the whitest large American city at 50%. New York is 45%, Chicago is 30%, etc. New Orleans is around 25% white, and Detroit is 8% white. At the other end of the scale, Portland is 75% white. If you look at the map, the ordering by level of segregation follows that pattern: Portland is the least segregated, Detroit is the most segregated, and LA, New York, Chicago, and New Orleans are between, in that order. [1] You can argue about whether this is racism or classism. As a practical matter, in American cities the two are tightly linked. Middle class people of both races tend to move to the suburbs, and of the people that are left, whites skew wealthier and blacks and hispanics skew poorer, even more so than in the general population. E.g. The median income of a white Chicagoan in 2009 was $64k (substantially above the national average). The median income of a black Chicagoan in 2009 was $29k (substantially below the national average). http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-muckrakers/2011/02/second-city-or-dead-last-income-apartheid-in-chicago http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-muckrakers/2011/02/second-....

doktrin 13y ago
> As far as I can tell, most European cities are predominantly white I think your impression is flawed. Many European cities are racially diverse and quite a few are segregated. Paris comes to mind as a particularly good example of both.
- rayiner 13y ago
  A city can be racially diverse and also predominantly white. London, for example, is a metropolitan, racially diverse city that is nonetheless 60% white. I'm not denying that there are European cities that are racially diverse. But every single U.S. city over a million people, and most of the cities between 500,000 and 1 million, are majority-minority, usually by a large margin (say 2:1). I think that's a phenomenon that's alien to major European cities. As an aside, I think Europeans unfairly jump to calling Americans racist, when they don't have to deal with the political dynamics of majority-minority cities. It's one thing for a city to be diverse. It's another thing when the dominant ethnic group of a country ends up being a minority in the city, in the process losing political control, etc. Add to that the layer of economic conflict that arises from tax revenues flowing from the richer majority to pay for municipal services for the poorer majority. That creates a wholly different political dynamic, one that is alien to Europeans. Look at Paris. There is tremendous tension there between whites and Arabs. But the Muslim population of Paris is only 10-15% (estimated). What would the political dynamic in France be like if Paris were 60-70% Muslim and hadn't elected a non-Muslim mayor in 40 years, yet still relied on whites for most of the tax revenue? I would hazard a guess that the French would handle it a lot worse than the Americans have been doing in similar situations...

bostonvaulter2 13y ago

Honolulu would count in my opinion, which is partially because I would break out "Asian" into at least Japanese, Chinese, Filipino, and other Asian. Even without that breakdown Honolulu doesn't have any majority (although Asian is really close at 46%). And 19.93% of people with two or more races (compared to 4.7% for SF and 3.9% for Boston) Map: http://i.imgur.com/Z0X8Prs.jpg http://i.imgur.com/Z0X8Prs.jpg A little hard to see from the map but although Asian is obviously predominant, the other races are sprinkled throughout besides for a few exceptions: a rich area in the bottom right and a few military bases/housing which have much higher white/black and very little asian. Demographics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honolulu_County,_Hawaii#Demographics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honolulu_County,_Hawaii#Demogra...