17 ms·

Map of America's Racial Segregation

299 points by Aqua_Geek 13y ago

simias 13y ago
I feel like you would get a similar result if you did a map of Paris or other big european cities, I'm not sure it's an american thing. I think over here we just don't like/can't compile that kind of racial data. I would be more interested in counter-examples: cities were the melting pot is the rule.
- icecreampain 13y ago
  Making race maps in Europe would get you shot, your family hanged and all your friends deemed social outcasts forever. For example: the Swedish crime prevention board (BRÅ) no longer publish crime statistics containing ethnic background information. They stopped a few years ago (2006) when the PC media found out that africans and arabs were way, way over-represented in all crime categories. This is due to political correctness - something that the US seems to have been spared from. So far.
  - hearty778 13y ago
    This is not quite true in the US, since the FBI classifies Hispanics in the "white" category, obscuring crime data between non-Hispanic whites and Hispanics.
  - simias 13y ago
    The problem with this kind of statistic is that it doesn't really teach us much: "Hey, impoverished communities have a higher rate of criminality! Who would have thought!" while at the same time giving arguments for the far right to simplify the issues and reach simple conclusions. Maybe there are cases where these statistics could be legitimately useful, but I'm not aware of any.
    - hyperpape 13y ago
      I don't think this is remotely true. Compiling the statistics does not commit you to a particular use. Obviously, people can abuse them, but here's an example from just this month of a case where you're glad to have the racial breakdown, because it clues you in to a piece of good news and a possible root cause: http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/08/lead-crime-racism-black-white-juvenile http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/08/lead-crime-rac...
    - guard-of-terra 13y ago
      Impoverished communities are a problem here. For some reason whether you have a community of muslims or africans, it happens to be impoverished. On the other hand, if you have a community of asians or western europeans, it doesn't. That's exactly the problem parent is trying to convey. It's not that africans are inherently criminal, it's just that they have dangerous group dynamics.
      - bdunbar 13y ago
        > On the other hand, if you have a community of asians or western europeans, it doesn't. I might be mis-understanding the context here: I've been to a few impoverished communities composed of 98% descendants of Western Europeans. Think: white trash.
        newnewnew 13y ago
        And they commit only a fraction of the amount of crime of their black counter-parts: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6279991 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6279991
  - noir_lord 13y ago
    You can go too far from reality with political correctness but you can go just as far in the other direction with the "lack" of political correctness. The US has a much higher tolerance for what in Europe would be considered pretty blatant racism. I think that Political Correctness for the most part says we should treat everyone equally whether we like them or not which is the rational approach as I'm sure there are groups that don't like me (I'm a white middle class hard-line atheist so that probably gets me on a few lists right there). I'd sooner live in a country with "political correctness gone mad" (a frequently cry of the right wing press here) than one where it hasn't. We have politicians here condemning the Human Rights act because it makes them guarantee the rights for everyone even people "the majority don't like" which is exactly as it should be since the people "the majority don't like" can change so rapidly. Of course in America you have been spared the political correctness gone mad but you are still executing mentally retarded people in some states so maybe you could do with the political correctness going a bit "mad". “You can judge a society by how well it treats its prisoners”. - Dostoevsky
    - barry-cotter 13y ago
      The US has a much higher tolerance for what in Europe would be considered pretty blatant racism. Please expand. Nowhere in Europe has anything resembling the 4/5ths rule or Griggs vs Duke Power, no European country has a visible minority community as large as Blacks in the US, and no European country has a policy of discriminating on the basis of race in university admissions, to the best of my knowledge.
      - drone 13y ago
        Not to mention, if The Golden Dawn tried to start a political party here, they would be laughed off the stage, not given 21 seats in the house. I think the OP should point out to some actual studies about how much more blatantly racist Americans/America are/is than Europe/Europeans.
    - JPKab 13y ago
      Perhaps you and I have a different idea on what "Political Correctness" actually is. My view is that many mistake Scientifically Correct from Politically Correct. It is Scientifically Correct to say that there is very little difference, genetically, between Europeans, Asians, Africans, Latin Americans, etc. It also happens to be Politically Correct. However, it is also Scientifically Correct to say that there are huge disparities in victim reported violent crime rates between Europeans, Asians, Africans, and Latin Americans. However, this is not Politically Correct. This is an example of where a problem is identified, but unable to be discussed in the public sphere. If a problem can't be discussed, it can't be solved. An African-American male is over 7 times more likely to murder a person than a Hispanic or European-American male. He is also over 6 times more likely to be the victim of a murder. This is elementary statistics based on data collected by the FBI. If this problem (which in my opinion is cultural rather than this phony construct called "racial") can't be discussed in an honest fashion due to political organizations which will threaten politicians with boycotts/villification/etc due to their refusal to acknowledge inconvenient truths, then the problem will simply continue. Not talking about it makes the problem become uglier, because non-Black Americans in general have internalized the fact that poor Black neighborhoods are vastly more violent and dangerous. Any realtor can tell you this. They deal with people's ACTUAL prejudices every day, rather than the Politically Correct, aspirational notions of the desire to live in a diverse neighborhood. I say this as a white guy who grew up in various poor parts of the south, and spent large parts of my childhood with mostly black friends in mostly black neighborhoods. Political Correctness prevents us from collectively helping the predominantly black victims of a large sub-culture of black America that celebrates crime, dehumanizes women and gays, views educational/career achievement as betrayal of black identity, and tolerate men who willingly abandon their families. America will not succeed as a nation unless black Americans succeed, and political correctness throws them to the wolves by pretending a problem they are victimized by doesn't exist.
  - knowtheory 13y ago
    Or, it could be that the police are overly vigilant, or even racist against non-white Swedes, and arrest and incarcerate them at a rate disproportionate to the actual rate of crime. Stop and Frisk in NYC overwhelmingly targets blacks and latinos, to the point where it's been declared unconstitutional, for example.
    - asdfdsa1234 13y ago
      Crime victim surveys corroborate those figures.
      - knowtheory 13y ago
        Just to be clear, corroborate which figures?
    - newnewnew 13y ago
      Mayor Bloomberg claims that stop and frisk under-targets blacks and hispanics, given the percentage of crime committed[1]. It will be interesting to see if NY becomes Detroit in its absence. NYC is notable for having a lower level of crime than you would expect given its ethnic makeup. [1] http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/whites_subjected_to_too_many_stop_QM64S34uJ37zoJ36auG0HM http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/whites_subjected_to_too_m...
  - bowlofpetunias 13y ago
    It's interesting that if a European uses an ethnic reference as an insult or joke it's interpreted as a sign that Europeans are more racist than Americans, but if Europeans balk at racial profiling it's considered extreme political correctness on the part of the Europeans. I would suggest the complete opposite is true, on both counts.
  - Shivetya 13y ago
    spared? Really? Where I live they don't give the race of the assailant out, but its assumed and unfortunately all too correctly as to what it is. I am quite sure a few high up in Washington would like it as such here in the US. Two in particular, our President and Attorney General, seem to go out of their way to jump on racial issues as if its some type of popularity thing, they unfortunately come across as desperate. Spared my butt, we just do our best to tune it out because its bombarded at us through media and government daily. Like the boy who cried wolf, when you cry wolf so many times when there is none no one will listen when there is.
  - ninjin 13y ago
    > They stopped a few years ago (2006) when the PC media found out that africans and arabs were way, way over-represented in all crime categories. I would love to see a reference verifying the causality that you are implying when it comes to the decision to drop ethnicity from the statistics. Also, I sincerely doubt that those of African and Arab ethnicity are over-represented in all crime categories. Violence, petty theft, sure, possibly. This is generally the category which the low-income portion of the population tends to dominate. But I think you will be hard pressed to find a document showing that the ethnics groups you are referencing are more prevalent when it comes to tax fraud.
    - guard-of-terra 13y ago
      You don't have to verify the causality. "media found out that africans and arabs were way, way over-represented in all [violent] crime categories" AND THEN "the Swedish crime prevention board (BRÅ) no longer publish crime statistics containing ethnic background information" is hilarious enough already.
    - yummyfajitas 13y ago
      Also, I sincerely doubt that those of African and Arab ethnicity are over-represented in all crime categories...tax fraud. [Citation needed] Oops, statistics are secret. Doh!
  - pygy_ 13y ago
    When you control for income and other social factors, it turns out that race is not a risk factor for committing crime.
    - icecreampain 13y ago
      Either (1) it's true for where you live or (2) you're lying. Page 46 of BRÅs 1996 report (http://galnegunnarsblogg.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/bra-1996-2-invandrares-och-invandrares-barns-brottslighet.pdf http://galnegunnarsblogg.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/bra-199...) says the following: "Invandrares överrepresentation i brottslighet beror inte på en ogynnsam fördelning vad gäller kön, ålder eller bostadsort. Den beror inte heller på en generellt sett låg socioekonomisk status (mätt genom s.k. SEI-kod) i Sverige." "Immigrants overrepresented in crime is not due to an unfavorable distribution in terms of gender, age or place of residence. It does not depend on the generally low socioeconomic status (as measured by the so-called SEI code) in Sweden." And now it's your turn: citation needed.
      - pygy_ 13y ago
        That's what a sociologist/statistician friend of mine[0] told me. I don't have a citation to back it up, but I think he does. I'll ask him if he can provide it. He lives in Belgium (I used to), and I don't know to which part of the world he was referring to (probably Belgium and/or surrounding countries). -- 0. http://progcours.ulg.ac.be/cocoon/en/enseignant/U191908.html http://progcours.ulg.ac.be/cocoon/en/enseignant/U191908.html
  - Xylakant 13y ago
    > This is due to political correctness - something that the US seems to have been spared from. So far. The reasons for such a move are mixed. Some part is certainly PC, some other part is that the segregation along "race boundaries" is actually misleading. Income class and eduction is usually a way better boundary when segregating crime statistics. However, for a long list of reasons, africans and arabs (or people moving into the country in general) are over-represented in the poorer classes and underrepresented in the richer class which in turn makes them appear stronger in crime statistics. Another reason is that statistics are often read the wrong way, a problem that occurs very often with the official german crime stats: The most often cited statistic is the "Polizeibericht [1]", but that lists reported crimes - so everything that ever gets reported to the police. Some of those reports never get prosecuted, some get acquitted at trial, ... The police report in Berlin used to list all reports where the perpetrators nationality was unknown as "foreign", an error that seriously skewed the stats for any cursory reader. Statistics like that are a very weak datapoint - useful if you know how to read them, useless or even dangerous for most cases where they're cited. This misrepresentation of public data leads to a certain caution in publishing stats by the persons in charge. Back to the Topic: I don't think that maps of that kind would get you shot, hanged or made outcast in Europe. Quite to the contrary, such maps exist and do provide valuable insight - though the same caveats that apply for the statistics apply here as well. As an example here's a map of how many non-germans live in berlin by quarter: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/7/7d/Bev%C3%B6lkerungskarten_berlin.png http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/7/7d/Bev%C3%B6lkeru... (top left). It's not as fine-grained as the one discussed here, but that's probably more due to unavailability of finer data. More maps of germany in the official report by the "Statistisches Bundesamt" https://www.destatis.de/DE/Publikationen/Thematisch/Bevoelkerung/MigrationIntegration/AuslaendBevoelkerung2010200117004.pdf?__blob=publicationFile https://www.destatis.de/DE/Publikationen/Thematisch/Bevoelke... [1] The official name is Polizeiliche Kriminalstatistik (PKS) https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polizeiliche_Kriminalstatistik_(Deutschland) https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polizeiliche_Kriminalstatistik...
  - newnewnew 13y ago
    Steve Sailer found out that American schools are really good when you break down test scores by race[1]. For example, the white American population does better on international tests than most European populations, American hispanics do better than all Latin American countries, and etc. Unfortunately, the original article is not available because VDARE is having a fundraiser[2], but why not drop a dollar to keep Steve in business? Since then, US government has stopped publishing PISA test scores by race. It's embarrassing for people on all sides of the aisle, including right-wing school reform movements that need the purported terribleness of American schools for their political momentum. [1] http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_4ify7vDXrDs/TRFeGl7ocuI/AAAAAAAAGzo/Or4W468_WK4/s1600/PISA_Intl_Scores.png http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_4ify7vDXrDs/TRFeGl7ocuI/AAAAAAAAGz... [2] http://www.vdare.com/articles/pisa-scores-show-demography-is-destiny-in-education-too-but-washington-doesnt-want-you-to-k http://www.vdare.com/articles/pisa-scores-show-demography-is...
  - ris 13y ago
    "Making race maps in Europe would get you shot, your family hanged and all your friends deemed social outcasts forever." My heart bleeds for you persecuted middle class whites. Oh, the pain and injustice you must endure!
- wozniacki 13y ago
  Some findings from the European Minorities and Discrimination Survey: (The results present the first EU-wide comparable data on selected ethnic minorities and immigrants’ experiences of discrimination and criminal victimisation, including experiences of policing) • On average, every second Roma and 4 in 10 Sub Saharan African interviewees was discriminated against on the basis of their ethnicity at least once in the last 12 months. • 82% of those who were discriminated against on the basis of their ethnicity/immigrant background in the last 12 months did not report their last experience of discrimination anywhere – either at the place where it occurred or to a complaints body. • On average, 1 in 5 Sub-Saharan African and Roma respondents were victims of what they considered to be‘racially motivated’assault or threat, or serious harassment, at least once in the last 12 months. • Depending on the groups surveyed,between 57%and 74% of incidents of assault or threat were not reported to the police. • Of those who were stopped by the police in the last 12 months, on average 17% of North Africans and 14%of Roma considered that they were stopped specifically because of their ethnic or immigrant background. Source: http://fra.europa.eu/en/press-release/2010/first-ever-eu-wide-survey-minorities-mapping-discrimination-across-europe http://fra.europa.eu/en/press-release/2010/first-ever-eu-wid... http://fra.europa.eu/sites/default/files/fra_uploads/664-eumidis_mainreport_conference-edition_en_.pdf http://fra.europa.eu/sites/default/files/fra_uploads/664-eum... [ PDF ] Edit: Formatting
- rayiner 13y ago
  The overriding trend in American cities is that whites will not live in predominantly black or hispanic neighborhoods.[1] But the reverse is generally not true. So you see much less segregation in predominantly white cities like Portland than in cities like Chicago that have an even mix of races, which have less segregation than predominantly black cities like Detroit or New Orleans. As far as I can tell, most European cities are predominantly white, so I wouldn't expect as much segregation in those cities as you see in say Chicago or Detroit or Philadelphia. London is one of the more ethnically diverse (large) Western European cities, and is roughly 60% white. LA is the whitest large American city at 50%. New York is 45%, Chicago is 30%, etc. New Orleans is around 25% white, and Detroit is 8% white. At the other end of the scale, Portland is 75% white. If you look at the map, the ordering by level of segregation follows that pattern: Portland is the least segregated, Detroit is the most segregated, and LA, New York, Chicago, and New Orleans are between, in that order. [1] You can argue about whether this is racism or classism. As a practical matter, in American cities the two are tightly linked. Middle class people of both races tend to move to the suburbs, and of the people that are left, whites skew wealthier and blacks and hispanics skew poorer, even more so than in the general population. E.g. The median income of a white Chicagoan in 2009 was $64k (substantially above the national average). The median income of a black Chicagoan in 2009 was $29k (substantially below the national average). http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-muckrakers/2011/02/second-city-or-dead-last-income-apartheid-in-chicago http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-muckrakers/2011/02/second-....
  - doktrin 13y ago
    > As far as I can tell, most European cities are predominantly white I think your impression is flawed. Many European cities are racially diverse and quite a few are segregated. Paris comes to mind as a particularly good example of both.
    - rayiner 13y ago
      A city can be racially diverse and also predominantly white. London, for example, is a metropolitan, racially diverse city that is nonetheless 60% white. I'm not denying that there are European cities that are racially diverse. But every single U.S. city over a million people, and most of the cities between 500,000 and 1 million, are majority-minority, usually by a large margin (say 2:1). I think that's a phenomenon that's alien to major European cities. As an aside, I think Europeans unfairly jump to calling Americans racist, when they don't have to deal with the political dynamics of majority-minority cities. It's one thing for a city to be diverse. It's another thing when the dominant ethnic group of a country ends up being a minority in the city, in the process losing political control, etc. Add to that the layer of economic conflict that arises from tax revenues flowing from the richer majority to pay for municipal services for the poorer majority. That creates a wholly different political dynamic, one that is alien to Europeans. Look at Paris. There is tremendous tension there between whites and Arabs. But the Muslim population of Paris is only 10-15% (estimated). What would the political dynamic in France be like if Paris were 60-70% Muslim and hadn't elected a non-Muslim mayor in 40 years, yet still relied on whites for most of the tax revenue? I would hazard a guess that the French would handle it a lot worse than the Americans have been doing in similar situations...
- bostonvaulter2 13y ago
  Honolulu would count in my opinion, which is partially because I would break out "Asian" into at least Japanese, Chinese, Filipino, and other Asian. Even without that breakdown Honolulu doesn't have any majority (although Asian is really close at 46%). And 19.93% of people with two or more races (compared to 4.7% for SF and 3.9% for Boston) Map: http://i.imgur.com/Z0X8Prs.jpg http://i.imgur.com/Z0X8Prs.jpg A little hard to see from the map but although Asian is obviously predominant, the other races are sprinkled throughout besides for a few exceptions: a rich area in the bottom right and a few military bases/housing which have much higher white/black and very little asian. Demographics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honolulu_County,_Hawaii#Demographics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honolulu_County,_Hawaii#Demogra...
danso 13y ago
HN has a policy against numbers in titles as they come off as link-baity...I wish a similar policy applied to titles with such absolute statements as "the best ever" or "what you never knew about..." This map is not the "best" map ever of racial segregation, though it may be the most comprehensive. I'd argue that a more effective map would include some kind of time element, to show how formerly integrated areas slowly became segregated.
- knowtheory 13y ago
  If that data could be collected/found/cross referenced. I doubt that is a possibility, and thus this probably is one of the 'best' maps of segregation (for some definition of best). Also, this is what a history of segregation looks like. Its worth remembering that small towns, at least in places like Ohio, were so inhospitable to African Americans that they were referred to as "sundown towns" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundown_town http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundown_town ). When people think that racism is over, maps like these serve as a pretty good starting point for asking them to reevaluate their POV. Of course, there's always this you could start with too: http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2013/08/13/white-definitions-merit-and-admissions-change-when-they-think-about-asian-americans http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2013/08/13/white-definiti...
mumbi 13y ago
Oregon looks like a nice place to live </sarcasm> Cool and interesting maps.
- davidw 13y ago
  > Oregon looks like a nice place to live It is, thanks, if you don't mind the crappy weather.
- doktrin 13y ago
  > Oregon looks like a nice place to live </sarcasm> Not sure why you applied a sarcasm tag. I can't speak for all of Oregon, but Portland is quite nice.
  - mumbi 13y ago
    The sarcasm tag was because Portland is all white. I didn't want to offend anyone.
spodek 13y ago
Here is the actual map, which you can zoom into, scroll, pan, explore your neighborhood, etc. -- http://demographics.coopercenter.org/DotMap/index.html http://demographics.coopercenter.org/DotMap/index.html EDIT: Exploring, I see the island I live on -- Manhattan -- has the four main dot colors well represented, though mainly in blocks. The main mixing is between whites and Asians and between blacks and Hispanics. Notably parts of the Upper West Side, East Village/Lower East Side, and Midtown west show significantly more mixing, at least by eye -- it would be interesting to quantify the data. Some parts of Queens and Brooklyn show mixing of all four dot colors within the same city block. Still, on the whole most dot colors remain in blocks with less mixing on the edges. Some dot colors rarely mix with other dot colors. EDIT TWO: How they made the map is here -- http://www.coopercenter.org/demographics/Racial-Dot-Map http://www.coopercenter.org/demographics/Racial-Dot-Map -- which describes the data sources and links to the code on Github.
- xntrk 13y ago
  The Map is really cool. I wish you could zoom in more. It's hard to find my actual block on manhattan.
- 3JPLW 13y ago
  Very fascinating. I wish you could link to specific map views. I'd love to send direct links to different areas.
- tootie 13y ago
  Neighborhoods doesn't tell the whole story in New York because we have a subway. We are integrated at the breating space level on a daily basis.
  - mkopinsky 13y ago
    Riding the subway means that as a white New Yorker, you will twice a day share a room with a black person. Whether you interact with them is another story - I'd venture that most people never say a word to anyone in the subway. To understand (likelihood of) interaction, neighborhood maps are one piece of the story, as would be (as mentioned elsewhere in the thread) workplace data.
amerika_blog 13y ago
Stop trying to force people to like one another. Social engineering is not like other forms of engineering; it depends on values outside a count of interchangeable parts. Many of humanity's worst outcomes have emerged from such well-intentioned but oblivious social engineering.
- pessimizer 13y ago
  Stop projecting.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
    - deleted 13y ago
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    - pessimizer 13y ago
      Nobody's trying to make anybody do anything, they're making a map of racial distributions. If you see that is a threat, it's because you think that some of the beliefs that you have would be seen as racist - and you're projecting onto the makers of a map. I use white friends to make apartment inquiries for me in neighborhoods known for housing discrimination, do I exist? 150 years ago, white people were far more likely to know and live near black people. Did nature somehow change in the interim? Separate but equal was a set of laws imposing a behavior from above. The equal part wasn't true, and it wasn't 100 years ago. It was the environment that my parents grew up in, and I went to a segregated school myself. It wasn't anything that black people had or have any choice over, or preferred.
Jgrubb 13y ago
That's hilarious, I was wondering if my hometown (ATL) would be broken down, and it's the second one. When I moved back there after college I wanted to do some sort of study of the racial segregation in that city. It's totally along that east-west axis, more precisely at Ponce De Leon Ave. All these upper-class streets that run through the nicest neighborhoods in north Atlanta even change their names as they cross over Ponce. God, I miss that town every now and then. I'd kill for a hot Krispy Kreme right now.
- Jtsummers 13y ago
  Road name changes often happen at city/county lines where the roads actually changed ownership or used to be separate and ended up joined at some point. Not knowing the history or breakdown of the Atlanta area well, would this make sense there?
- GrantS 13y ago
  Also from Atlanta here and I'm always most aware of this when riding MARTA to the airport. Once you get south of downtown, it becomes hard to ignore the strange fact that the only white people still on the train are those with luggage. And in case it consoles you to know that others are living your dreams, I just had two donuts at the Krispy Kreme on Ponce earlier this morning -- in fact right around the time of your comment. They were delicious but I should really stop going so often.
  - Jgrubb 13y ago
    Aww man. I used to live right around the corner on 3rd street. I don't know if midtown is still as colorful these days, but about ten years ago if you saw an attractive female walking around after dark you could rest assured it was a man. Rural Jersey is slightly less exciting..
k2enemy 13y ago
Thomas Schelling [0] has shown that even if your most preferred neighborhood is a perfect mix of races, it is a dynamically unstable equilibrium (assuming that if the balance tips one way or the other, you prefer it to tip towards your own race). That is, segregated neighborhoods are not necessarily a sign that people prefer segregation -- it is also a natural outcome when people want to live in a mixed neighborhood. There are many interesting simulations of the phenomenon. [1] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Schelling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Schelling [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_XtboyO8jc&noredirect=1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_XtboyO8jc&noredirect=1
- bentcorner 13y ago
  Here's an implementation of Schelling's model: http://ccl.northwestern.edu/netlogo/models/Segregation http://ccl.northwestern.edu/netlogo/models/Segregation
- revelation 13y ago
  Do people pick their dwelling by racial mix? I would expect this to be much more of a function of income and means.
  - michaelt 13y ago
    Obviously you can't pay more than your means, but the housing market has people bidding against one another for products that differ in dozens of different dimensions. Me, maybe I'm willing to pay more for my favorite architectural style and off-road parking for my motorbike. Maybe you're starting a family, you'll pay more to live in an area with a quality public school, and a park where you can walk your dog. Another person might pay a premium for a safer neighborhood with lower crime rates and more local shops. We all take our preferences, decide what we're willing to pay, and you outbid me because I wasn't willing to pay any premium for that public school (or whatever).
  - auctiontheory 13y ago
    Apparently you have never tried to "rent while black."
hedgew 13y ago
Is segregation really the appropriate word here? Separation of the races is coded into our genes and happens naturally without any malicious intent too. It's not much different from the fact that all of us prefer to surround ourselves with people who are similar to ourselves, usually in terms of thinking, hobbies, and interests. Physical attributes influence us as well, whether it's bikers and leather jackets or punks and black spiked clothes. In evolutionary biology this is referred to as "kinship". Not to say that racism isn't worth fighting against, but the more free our societies become the more people on average will follow their natural instincts. A non-racial example of this is Norway, which is likely the most gender equal country in the world, but has also extremely skewed gender distributions in professions such as engineering and nursing; with almost only men in engineering, and women in nursing, despite massive attempts to balance the situation. This could be easily misinterpreted and claimed as evidence that Norway does not respect gender equality, but in fact it's more likely evidence of the opposite! People in Norway are more free to pursue what makes them happy. When we use terms like "segregation" for cases where it might actually be just "separation", we risk causing unnecessary hatred and overblown illusions of racism - misleading us from what actually matters: freedom and equality.
- sophacles 13y ago
  Can you point to sources that answer any of these questions: * What mechanism does this racial separation take? * What sort of evidence shows that skin color or other ethnic identifiers in genetics are the thing that causes tribal separation vs them just serving as a simple proxy to more complicated factors? * What explanations of exigent factors are there... for example why are there black and hispanic republicans, or white members of traditionally "black gangs". How do these less common (but not rare) group membership issues override the claimed genetic selection? * What genetic factors explain the fracturing of groups within groups of seemingly genetically similar (at least on a racial/ethinc level) people? The claim made here doesn't actually answer any of those questions - I'm not sure the validity of "separation of races is coded in our genes" makes sense given the scenarios highlighted in my questions.
  - pessimizer 13y ago
WA 13y ago
I watched once a lecture on Coursera about Schelling's model of segregation, which I found extremely insightful. If you see maps like that with strong segregation, one of the first attempts to explain it is "racism". However, if you divide your neighborhood in 9 blocks such that you are in the center, you have 8 neighbors. Schelling's model now shows that even in cities where most people say:"I'd like to live next to only 35-40% of people who are similar to me (whatever that means exactly, could be ethnical background, skin color, income, ...) and I'd accept 60% of neighbors who are different from me", you would still get a segregation of 80-90% in the city. So, the reason for strong segregation is not necessarily that people are racists. People can be very tolerant, but if you try to fulfill the minimum requirement (40% like me), you end up with strong segregation patterns just because there's no other way to fulfill the minimum requirement for most people. Note: Numbers aren't exact, but pretty close. Edit: Link to lecture: https://class.coursera.org/modelthinking-003/lecture/16 https://class.coursera.org/modelthinking-003/lecture/16
- acchow 13y ago
  Any chance you have a direct link to the lecture without having to register for a course?
  - WA 13y ago
    This is it: https://class.coursera.org/modelthinking-003/lecture/16 https://class.coursera.org/modelthinking-003/lecture/16
- twic 13y ago
  Reminds me of a similar thing in developmental biology, where if you have two populations of cells, each having a slighly higher affinity for other cells of its own type, then they will very efficiently sort themselves into separate compartments. This is thought to be a pretty important mechanism in the formation and maintenance of structures in the body. In case anyone's interested, here is a nice (if now rather old, although to be honest scientific writing was so much better back in the '90s) review on the whole business: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0092867400812970 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0092867400... In which we find a paragraph describing this process: "The selector genes do more than specify the pattern and the structures that the compartments will eventually make—they also specify, indirectly, a surface property. This property has been termed cell affinity, meaning that cells that share the same affinity, owing to the same binary code of selector genes, will intermingle during growth. There are a number of different experiments that lead to this conclusion, but perhaps the simplest is the observation that when the selector gene engrailed is removed, in vivo, from a posterior clone of cells in the wing, those cells gain anterior affinity: they now sort out from posterior cells and, if they are in contact with anterior cells, will sort into and mingle with them. Cells from neighboring compartments will have different affinities and tend to minimize their mutual contact, so that where the two compartments abut, there is a relatively straight line across which the cells do not stray."
johnbburg 13y ago
I'm surprised they didn't use Washington D.C. as one of the featured images. The contrast is nearly as start as Detroit's.
- sputknick 13y ago
  What would make the DC map even more interesting would be to watch it over time as more "blue" moves into those "green" areas around Columbia Heights, Petworth, Shaw etc.
- flatline 13y ago
  Me too - for the lazy: http://i.imgur.com/dBIBuCD.jpg http://i.imgur.com/dBIBuCD.jpg The Rock Creek Park divide is just as noticeable on the map as it is driving around the area. On a larger scale, the SE/NW divide is exactly what you'd expect. Keep in mind that the city itself is (or at least was, before gentrification) predominately black, and the SE areas are the poorest.
- rak 13y ago
  D.C over time would be a great thing to see.
Pxtl 13y ago
Oh god, I read the comments. I know comments on news sites are awful, but I didn't expect that on Wired.
- acchow 13y ago
  Rookie mistake. Standard rules apply https://twitter.com/AvoidComments https://twitter.com/AvoidComments
shawnee_ 13y ago
One of the interesting things about this map is that it shows not just distribution, but also density. Non-Caucasian ethnicities are not only concentrated in certain "neighborhoods", they also tend to live in households with far more people per square foot than whites. From the map, overview of the Bay area: http://hackeress.com/ethnic-distribution-bay-area.png http://hackeress.com/ethnic-distribution-bay-area.png
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guard-of-terra 13y ago
Russian here. We won't see a similar map of Moscow for two reasons: 1) Immigrants can't afford any housing. 2) Most rent is private and not reported anywhere; most immigrants are illegal and not accounted anywhere. Moscow won't segregate because people are awfully un-mobile. If this changes, we may share the fate of cities in USA/Europe. The problem is that a lot of immigrants are flowing in (from central asia) and there is no political will to limit their influx / control their quality. Right now all the immigrants work and only resort to crime in dire situations, but I'm afraid this is bound to change if measures are not taken.
jebblue 13y ago
I ran a check with Google using "define: segregation" and the definition included, "the act of setting". The title uses the term segregation perhaps innocently but incorrectly. People live where they choose. If the government said they had to live somewhere then it would be segregation. So it's really a map of where people tend to settle. HN should not have allowed the title to stand as is. Perhaps HN feels it's necessary to engage in sensationalism like some of the other similar sites I never or rarely go to any more for technical news.
- mkr-hn 13y ago
  Words rarely have a single definition. Those definitions often have substantial history behind them.
  - jebblue 13y ago
    I gave you the step to find the top level, world-wide definition in Google. You say there are other definitions. Ok let's check the Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_segregation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_segregation "Segregation itself is defined by the European Commission against Racism and Intolerance as "the act by which a (natural or legal) person separates other persons" If people separate, or group, themselves according to their own desires then that is not segregation according to Google and according to the Wiki which sites at least the "European Commission against Racism and Intolerance". You may disagree with me but I've provided two worldwide known references both in agreement with each other and with me. The use of the word segregation was wrong by the original author and wrong by HN for posting it that way.
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detcader 13y ago
Before this comment forum devolves into the usual level of strife trying to grapple with what race "is," I'd like to offer two articles. What We Mean When We Say 'Race Is a Social Construct' - http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/05/what-we-mean-when-we-say-race-is-a-social-construct/275872/ http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/05/what-we-... The Point Is Not To Interpret Whiteness But To To Abolish It by Noel Ignatiev - http://racetraitor.org/abolishthepoint.html http://racetraitor.org/abolishthepoint.html (the stuff about "White Studies" (obviously contextual) and Marxist tie-ins are totally optional to understanding the central points, I believe)
daigoba66 13y ago
I'd like to see a similar map that explores other attributes such as income, family size, etc.
karlkatzke 13y ago
Dang. I have been looking for a GIS/BigData project, and this was one of my ideas.
- BrandonMarc 13y ago
  Try doing this for previous datasets, so that you can compare maps and extrapolate trends over time. Say, the 2000, 1990, 1980 census data.
ozh 13y ago
"African American" and "White". This is grotesque. Either say black & white, or african american & caucasian american. Pick one.
protomyth 13y ago
Given the reservations in the US, it would have been nice to see Native Americans have their own color. It would be a nice touch to compare reservation vs. urban conclaves.
cfesta9 13y ago
This is a really cool map! I have a few questions about it though. Racial Segregation are very strong words to use when describing this map. I have lived in Chicago for my whole life. I have heard people say that Chicago is the most segregated city in the US. That line might be true. But when I look at this map it is very hard to draw the assumption that Chicago is incredibly segregated. Looking at this map you could easily say white people live here african american live here and asian / hispanic live here etc... But it is much deeper then the top overview. Chicago has a huge polish , german, irish community. I'm talking about people who have moved from their home country to live in the US. I notice a trend that when polish people move to chicago they move to where polish people live not any old "white" neighborhood they move to a place where they feel comfortable and have common ground. Never in my life have I or the city say white people need to live here and african american live here. There must be a reason that Chinese live on the south side Vietnamese live on the north side and Korean live on the further north side. Latino is the same. I forgot where i was going with this point. But I feel the way we see racial segregation is that some higher power says that we must not live next to each other. When in truth people want to live by their people.
- tptacek 13y ago
  When people talk about segregation in Chicago, they are mostly referring to the black south and near west side, and to a lesser extent the hispanic near-southwest and Little Village areas. Look closely at the map on this thread, and match it up to a Chicago neighborhood map. Look at the border between Beverly (where I grew up) and Gresham and Brainerd. Look at the borders around Hyde Park. Look at the border between Austin and Oak Park (where I live now). For that matter, look at Lawndale vs Little Village. The borders are sharp, they follow regular lines, and generally involve a 90+% majority black neighborhood on one side. There are a bunch of reasons this happened: * The Great Migration, during which Chicago was a giant magnet for rural black southerners * Redlining, the overtly racist/segregationist practice of refusing home loans to black families in "non-black" neighborhoods * The construction of the Ryan, which displaced black families who ended up moving to places like Englewood * The construction of the CHA high rise housing projects, which were concentrated in areas that would eventually become majority-black * The subsequent flight of white families from places like Englewood, which went from 10% black immediately after WW2 to 98+%(!) black in 1980 It's important to note that with the possible exception of Beverly, which really is a white Irish enclave, the non-black non-hispanic neighborhoods in Chicago aren't intolerant, and have black representation roughly in line with their representation in the population as a whole. If you live in Avondale or Rogers Park or Lakeview, it probably doesn't look at all segregated. Also, Chicago isn't the most segregated city in the US.
munificent 13y ago
It's interesting that you can almost always spot the university areas in a city on this map by looking for the cluster of asians.
frogpelt 13y ago
If there was not hatred (not gonna happen, by the way), would segregation still be a bad thing? Is there something inherently WRONG with people gravitating toward and feeling most comfortable around people who look like themselves?
jccalhoun 13y ago
Interesting project but it seems only useful at all for large cities. I zoomed in on the rural area I live in and there wasn't anything. They mention toggling between color and black and white but there still wasn't anything there.
nonce42 13y ago
Looking at the Bay Area in this map, I noticed a very dense African-American region near Dublin CA that looked out of place. I investigated what it was and was shocked to discover it was the Santa Rita Jail. The map really made it clear how racially skewed the jail population is.
cutie 13y ago
After seeing Los Angeles and the map of the west in general, I believe the Latinos are significantly under-counted. I had anticipated this to some extent in daily life but it was driven home a few years ago. I lived in a very "latino" neighborhood, unusual to see anyone else... When election time came around, I got in line of perhaps 50-100 people at a very busy polling place. Bored, I looked down the line at each person. Gone were the folks I was used to seeing every day, in fact I was hard-pressed to find any. I counted one or two latinos in the whole line, and they were not from the migrant-worker class... i.e. poorer Mexican or Central American Indians. It is probable a larger percentage of these folks will submit to the Census bureau than registering to vote, but how much? As a whole they are not well integrated.
wahsd 13y ago
What I find interesting is that the racial breakdown is still so racist.... White, Black, Asian, Hispanic, Other/Multi-racial ??? It's shameful! It's racist because only the White cohort shares any measurable uniformity. Blacks are African-Americans of slave decent, North, East, South, West, and several other groups in between Africans, Asians are even more differentiated. Really??? Tadjiks, Indians, Chinese, Japanese, Malaysians are all just Asian? It's such a degenerate, lazy, white-centric breakdown. It's a disgrace. Nice map though!
- setitimer 13y ago
  Italians, Germans, Russians, Irish are all just White? It's such a degenerate, lazy, anti-white breakdown. It's a disgrace.
cjensen 13y ago
I love this map, but really hate the implementation. Dots overlaid on white makes dots really hard to see. I'd love to be able to set the background to black or something. Also, last time this was featured on Fark the map became quickly unusable. Would be nice if they could generate some KML files or something that could be used outside of their website.
ebspelman 13y ago
These guys did an amazing job with the interactive element, but a lot of this is borrowed work! Let's give credit where credit is due: Bill Rankin posted maps in this exact visual style back in 2009. You can see them (and many other amazing maps he's done) at his blog -- http://www.radicalcartography.net/index.html?chicagodots http://www.radicalcartography.net/index.html?chicagodots Eric Fischer picked up Bill's project and ran with it, composing maps for most of the major US cities with census 2010 data. You can see them all on his Flickr page -- http://www.flickr.com/photos/walkingsf/sets/72157624812674967/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/walkingsf/sets/7215762481267496... I love great maps, but it's a little disheartening that these precursor projects aren't mentioned anywhere in the article/comments.
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- unhe 13y ago
  Jews have Israel? Fact: Israel morally still belongs to Palestinians... Here come the flames
- doktrin 13y ago
  > The Indians have India. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_India http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_India > "Not enough black folks, no black community" (aka "I want to be with my own kind") Cool anecdote.
  - ChrisNorstrom 13y ago
    http://www.livescience.com/20663-black-white-segregated-neighborhoods.html http://www.livescience.com/20663-black-white-segregated-neig... Good day to you sir.
humbyvaldes 13y ago
Hispanic isn't a race
helipad 13y ago
Take a guess where 8 Mile Road is in Detroit: http://cl.ly/image/2m0u3y282M1H http://cl.ly/image/2m0u3y282M1H

299 points by Aqua_Geek 13y ago

I feel like you would get a similar result if you did a map of Paris or other big european cities, I'm not sure it's an american thing. I think over here we just don't like/can't compile that kind of racial data. I would be more interested in counter-examples: cities were the melting pot is the rule.

icecreampain 13y ago
Making race maps in Europe would get you shot, your family hanged and all your friends deemed social outcasts forever. For example: the Swedish crime prevention board (BRÅ) no longer publish crime statistics containing ethnic background information. They stopped a few years ago (2006) when the PC media found out that africans and arabs were way, way over-represented in all crime categories. This is due to political correctness - something that the US seems to have been spared from. So far.
- hearty778 13y ago
  This is not quite true in the US, since the FBI classifies Hispanics in the "white" category, obscuring crime data between non-Hispanic whites and Hispanics.
- simias 13y ago
  The problem with this kind of statistic is that it doesn't really teach us much: "Hey, impoverished communities have a higher rate of criminality! Who would have thought!" while at the same time giving arguments for the far right to simplify the issues and reach simple conclusions. Maybe there are cases where these statistics could be legitimately useful, but I'm not aware of any.
  - hyperpape 13y ago
    I don't think this is remotely true. Compiling the statistics does not commit you to a particular use. Obviously, people can abuse them, but here's an example from just this month of a case where you're glad to have the racial breakdown, because it clues you in to a piece of good news and a possible root cause: http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/08/lead-crime-racism-black-white-juvenile http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/08/lead-crime-rac...
  - guard-of-terra 13y ago
    Impoverished communities are a problem here. For some reason whether you have a community of muslims or africans, it happens to be impoverished. On the other hand, if you have a community of asians or western europeans, it doesn't. That's exactly the problem parent is trying to convey. It's not that africans are inherently criminal, it's just that they have dangerous group dynamics.
    - bdunbar 13y ago
      > On the other hand, if you have a community of asians or western europeans, it doesn't. I might be mis-understanding the context here: I've been to a few impoverished communities composed of 98% descendants of Western Europeans. Think: white trash.
      - newnewnew 13y ago
        And they commit only a fraction of the amount of crime of their black counter-parts: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6279991 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6279991
- noir_lord 13y ago
  You can go too far from reality with political correctness but you can go just as far in the other direction with the "lack" of political correctness. The US has a much higher tolerance for what in Europe would be considered pretty blatant racism. I think that Political Correctness for the most part says we should treat everyone equally whether we like them or not which is the rational approach as I'm sure there are groups that don't like me (I'm a white middle class hard-line atheist so that probably gets me on a few lists right there). I'd sooner live in a country with "political correctness gone mad" (a frequently cry of the right wing press here) than one where it hasn't. We have politicians here condemning the Human Rights act because it makes them guarantee the rights for everyone even people "the majority don't like" which is exactly as it should be since the people "the majority don't like" can change so rapidly. Of course in America you have been spared the political correctness gone mad but you are still executing mentally retarded people in some states so maybe you could do with the political correctness going a bit "mad". “You can judge a society by how well it treats its prisoners”. - Dostoevsky
  - barry-cotter 13y ago
    The US has a much higher tolerance for what in Europe would be considered pretty blatant racism. Please expand. Nowhere in Europe has anything resembling the 4/5ths rule or Griggs vs Duke Power, no European country has a visible minority community as large as Blacks in the US, and no European country has a policy of discriminating on the basis of race in university admissions, to the best of my knowledge.
    - drone 13y ago
      Not to mention, if The Golden Dawn tried to start a political party here, they would be laughed off the stage, not given 21 seats in the house. I think the OP should point out to some actual studies about how much more blatantly racist Americans/America are/is than Europe/Europeans.
  - JPKab 13y ago
    Perhaps you and I have a different idea on what "Political Correctness" actually is. My view is that many mistake Scientifically Correct from Politically Correct. It is Scientifically Correct to say that there is very little difference, genetically, between Europeans, Asians, Africans, Latin Americans, etc. It also happens to be Politically Correct. However, it is also Scientifically Correct to say that there are huge disparities in victim reported violent crime rates between Europeans, Asians, Africans, and Latin Americans. However, this is not Politically Correct. This is an example of where a problem is identified, but unable to be discussed in the public sphere. If a problem can't be discussed, it can't be solved. An African-American male is over 7 times more likely to murder a person than a Hispanic or European-American male. He is also over 6 times more likely to be the victim of a murder. This is elementary statistics based on data collected by the FBI. If this problem (which in my opinion is cultural rather than this phony construct called "racial") can't be discussed in an honest fashion due to political organizations which will threaten politicians with boycotts/villification/etc due to their refusal to acknowledge inconvenient truths, then the problem will simply continue. Not talking about it makes the problem become uglier, because non-Black Americans in general have internalized the fact that poor Black neighborhoods are vastly more violent and dangerous. Any realtor can tell you this. They deal with people's ACTUAL prejudices every day, rather than the Politically Correct, aspirational notions of the desire to live in a diverse neighborhood. I say this as a white guy who grew up in various poor parts of the south, and spent large parts of my childhood with mostly black friends in mostly black neighborhoods. Political Correctness prevents us from collectively helping the predominantly black victims of a large sub-culture of black America that celebrates crime, dehumanizes women and gays, views educational/career achievement as betrayal of black identity, and tolerate men who willingly abandon their families. America will not succeed as a nation unless black Americans succeed, and political correctness throws them to the wolves by pretending a problem they are victimized by doesn't exist.
- knowtheory 13y ago
  Or, it could be that the police are overly vigilant, or even racist against non-white Swedes, and arrest and incarcerate them at a rate disproportionate to the actual rate of crime. Stop and Frisk in NYC overwhelmingly targets blacks and latinos, to the point where it's been declared unconstitutional, for example.
  - asdfdsa1234 13y ago
    Crime victim surveys corroborate those figures.
    - knowtheory 13y ago
      Just to be clear, corroborate which figures?
  - newnewnew 13y ago
    Mayor Bloomberg claims that stop and frisk under-targets blacks and hispanics, given the percentage of crime committed[1]. It will be interesting to see if NY becomes Detroit in its absence. NYC is notable for having a lower level of crime than you would expect given its ethnic makeup. [1] http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/whites_subjected_to_too_many_stop_QM64S34uJ37zoJ36auG0HM http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/whites_subjected_to_too_m...
- bowlofpetunias 13y ago
  It's interesting that if a European uses an ethnic reference as an insult or joke it's interpreted as a sign that Europeans are more racist than Americans, but if Europeans balk at racial profiling it's considered extreme political correctness on the part of the Europeans. I would suggest the complete opposite is true, on both counts.
- Shivetya 13y ago
  spared? Really? Where I live they don't give the race of the assailant out, but its assumed and unfortunately all too correctly as to what it is. I am quite sure a few high up in Washington would like it as such here in the US. Two in particular, our President and Attorney General, seem to go out of their way to jump on racial issues as if its some type of popularity thing, they unfortunately come across as desperate. Spared my butt, we just do our best to tune it out because its bombarded at us through media and government daily. Like the boy who cried wolf, when you cry wolf so many times when there is none no one will listen when there is.
- ninjin 13y ago
  > They stopped a few years ago (2006) when the PC media found out that africans and arabs were way, way over-represented in all crime categories. I would love to see a reference verifying the causality that you are implying when it comes to the decision to drop ethnicity from the statistics. Also, I sincerely doubt that those of African and Arab ethnicity are over-represented in all crime categories. Violence, petty theft, sure, possibly. This is generally the category which the low-income portion of the population tends to dominate. But I think you will be hard pressed to find a document showing that the ethnics groups you are referencing are more prevalent when it comes to tax fraud.
  - guard-of-terra 13y ago
    You don't have to verify the causality. "media found out that africans and arabs were way, way over-represented in all [violent] crime categories" AND THEN "the Swedish crime prevention board (BRÅ) no longer publish crime statistics containing ethnic background information" is hilarious enough already.
  - yummyfajitas 13y ago
    Also, I sincerely doubt that those of African and Arab ethnicity are over-represented in all crime categories...tax fraud. [Citation needed] Oops, statistics are secret. Doh!
- pygy_ 13y ago
  When you control for income and other social factors, it turns out that race is not a risk factor for committing crime.
  - icecreampain 13y ago
    Either (1) it's true for where you live or (2) you're lying. Page 46 of BRÅs 1996 report (http://galnegunnarsblogg.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/bra-1996-2-invandrares-och-invandrares-barns-brottslighet.pdf http://galnegunnarsblogg.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/bra-199...) says the following: "Invandrares överrepresentation i brottslighet beror inte på en ogynnsam fördelning vad gäller kön, ålder eller bostadsort. Den beror inte heller på en generellt sett låg socioekonomisk status (mätt genom s.k. SEI-kod) i Sverige." "Immigrants overrepresented in crime is not due to an unfavorable distribution in terms of gender, age or place of residence. It does not depend on the generally low socioeconomic status (as measured by the so-called SEI code) in Sweden." And now it's your turn: citation needed.
    - pygy_ 13y ago
      That's what a sociologist/statistician friend of mine[0] told me. I don't have a citation to back it up, but I think he does. I'll ask him if he can provide it. He lives in Belgium (I used to), and I don't know to which part of the world he was referring to (probably Belgium and/or surrounding countries). -- 0. http://progcours.ulg.ac.be/cocoon/en/enseignant/U191908.html http://progcours.ulg.ac.be/cocoon/en/enseignant/U191908.html
- Xylakant 13y ago
  > This is due to political correctness - something that the US seems to have been spared from. So far. The reasons for such a move are mixed. Some part is certainly PC, some other part is that the segregation along "race boundaries" is actually misleading. Income class and eduction is usually a way better boundary when segregating crime statistics. However, for a long list of reasons, africans and arabs (or people moving into the country in general) are over-represented in the poorer classes and underrepresented in the richer class which in turn makes them appear stronger in crime statistics. Another reason is that statistics are often read the wrong way, a problem that occurs very often with the official german crime stats: The most often cited statistic is the "Polizeibericht [1]", but that lists reported crimes - so everything that ever gets reported to the police. Some of those reports never get prosecuted, some get acquitted at trial, ... The police report in Berlin used to list all reports where the perpetrators nationality was unknown as "foreign", an error that seriously skewed the stats for any cursory reader. Statistics like that are a very weak datapoint - useful if you know how to read them, useless or even dangerous for most cases where they're cited. This misrepresentation of public data leads to a certain caution in publishing stats by the persons in charge. Back to the Topic: I don't think that maps of that kind would get you shot, hanged or made outcast in Europe. Quite to the contrary, such maps exist and do provide valuable insight - though the same caveats that apply for the statistics apply here as well. As an example here's a map of how many non-germans live in berlin by quarter: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/7/7d/Bev%C3%B6lkerungskarten_berlin.png http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/7/7d/Bev%C3%B6lkeru... (top left). It's not as fine-grained as the one discussed here, but that's probably more due to unavailability of finer data. More maps of germany in the official report by the "Statistisches Bundesamt" https://www.destatis.de/DE/Publikationen/Thematisch/Bevoelkerung/MigrationIntegration/AuslaendBevoelkerung2010200117004.pdf?__blob=publicationFile https://www.destatis.de/DE/Publikationen/Thematisch/Bevoelke... [1] The official name is Polizeiliche Kriminalstatistik (PKS) https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polizeiliche_Kriminalstatistik_(Deutschland) https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polizeiliche_Kriminalstatistik...
- newnewnew 13y ago
  Steve Sailer found out that American schools are really good when you break down test scores by race[1]. For example, the white American population does better on international tests than most European populations, American hispanics do better than all Latin American countries, and etc. Unfortunately, the original article is not available because VDARE is having a fundraiser[2], but why not drop a dollar to keep Steve in business? Since then, US government has stopped publishing PISA test scores by race. It's embarrassing for people on all sides of the aisle, including right-wing school reform movements that need the purported terribleness of American schools for their political momentum. [1] http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_4ify7vDXrDs/TRFeGl7ocuI/AAAAAAAAGzo/Or4W468_WK4/s1600/PISA_Intl_Scores.png http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_4ify7vDXrDs/TRFeGl7ocuI/AAAAAAAAGz... [2] http://www.vdare.com/articles/pisa-scores-show-demography-is-destiny-in-education-too-but-washington-doesnt-want-you-to-k http://www.vdare.com/articles/pisa-scores-show-demography-is...
- ris 13y ago
  "Making race maps in Europe would get you shot, your family hanged and all your friends deemed social outcasts forever." My heart bleeds for you persecuted middle class whites. Oh, the pain and injustice you must endure!
wozniacki 13y ago
Some findings from the European Minorities and Discrimination Survey: (The results present the first EU-wide comparable data on selected ethnic minorities and immigrants’ experiences of discrimination and criminal victimisation, including experiences of policing) • On average, every second Roma and 4 in 10 Sub Saharan African interviewees was discriminated against on the basis of their ethnicity at least once in the last 12 months. • 82% of those who were discriminated against on the basis of their ethnicity/immigrant background in the last 12 months did not report their last experience of discrimination anywhere – either at the place where it occurred or to a complaints body. • On average, 1 in 5 Sub-Saharan African and Roma respondents were victims of what they considered to be‘racially motivated’assault or threat, or serious harassment, at least once in the last 12 months. • Depending on the groups surveyed,between 57%and 74% of incidents of assault or threat were not reported to the police. • Of those who were stopped by the police in the last 12 months, on average 17% of North Africans and 14%of Roma considered that they were stopped specifically because of their ethnic or immigrant background. Source: http://fra.europa.eu/en/press-release/2010/first-ever-eu-wide-survey-minorities-mapping-discrimination-across-europe http://fra.europa.eu/en/press-release/2010/first-ever-eu-wid... http://fra.europa.eu/sites/default/files/fra_uploads/664-eumidis_mainreport_conference-edition_en_.pdf http://fra.europa.eu/sites/default/files/fra_uploads/664-eum... [ PDF ] Edit: Formatting
rayiner 13y ago
The overriding trend in American cities is that whites will not live in predominantly black or hispanic neighborhoods.[1] But the reverse is generally not true. So you see much less segregation in predominantly white cities like Portland than in cities like Chicago that have an even mix of races, which have less segregation than predominantly black cities like Detroit or New Orleans. As far as I can tell, most European cities are predominantly white, so I wouldn't expect as much segregation in those cities as you see in say Chicago or Detroit or Philadelphia. London is one of the more ethnically diverse (large) Western European cities, and is roughly 60% white. LA is the whitest large American city at 50%. New York is 45%, Chicago is 30%, etc. New Orleans is around 25% white, and Detroit is 8% white. At the other end of the scale, Portland is 75% white. If you look at the map, the ordering by level of segregation follows that pattern: Portland is the least segregated, Detroit is the most segregated, and LA, New York, Chicago, and New Orleans are between, in that order. [1] You can argue about whether this is racism or classism. As a practical matter, in American cities the two are tightly linked. Middle class people of both races tend to move to the suburbs, and of the people that are left, whites skew wealthier and blacks and hispanics skew poorer, even more so than in the general population. E.g. The median income of a white Chicagoan in 2009 was $64k (substantially above the national average). The median income of a black Chicagoan in 2009 was $29k (substantially below the national average). http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-muckrakers/2011/02/second-city-or-dead-last-income-apartheid-in-chicago http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-muckrakers/2011/02/second-....
- doktrin 13y ago
  > As far as I can tell, most European cities are predominantly white I think your impression is flawed. Many European cities are racially diverse and quite a few are segregated. Paris comes to mind as a particularly good example of both.
  - rayiner 13y ago
    A city can be racially diverse and also predominantly white. London, for example, is a metropolitan, racially diverse city that is nonetheless 60% white. I'm not denying that there are European cities that are racially diverse. But every single U.S. city over a million people, and most of the cities between 500,000 and 1 million, are majority-minority, usually by a large margin (say 2:1). I think that's a phenomenon that's alien to major European cities. As an aside, I think Europeans unfairly jump to calling Americans racist, when they don't have to deal with the political dynamics of majority-minority cities. It's one thing for a city to be diverse. It's another thing when the dominant ethnic group of a country ends up being a minority in the city, in the process losing political control, etc. Add to that the layer of economic conflict that arises from tax revenues flowing from the richer majority to pay for municipal services for the poorer majority. That creates a wholly different political dynamic, one that is alien to Europeans. Look at Paris. There is tremendous tension there between whites and Arabs. But the Muslim population of Paris is only 10-15% (estimated). What would the political dynamic in France be like if Paris were 60-70% Muslim and hadn't elected a non-Muslim mayor in 40 years, yet still relied on whites for most of the tax revenue? I would hazard a guess that the French would handle it a lot worse than the Americans have been doing in similar situations...
bostonvaulter2 13y ago
Honolulu would count in my opinion, which is partially because I would break out "Asian" into at least Japanese, Chinese, Filipino, and other Asian. Even without that breakdown Honolulu doesn't have any majority (although Asian is really close at 46%). And 19.93% of people with two or more races (compared to 4.7% for SF and 3.9% for Boston) Map: http://i.imgur.com/Z0X8Prs.jpg http://i.imgur.com/Z0X8Prs.jpg A little hard to see from the map but although Asian is obviously predominant, the other races are sprinkled throughout besides for a few exceptions: a rich area in the bottom right and a few military bases/housing which have much higher white/black and very little asian. Demographics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honolulu_County,_Hawaii#Demographics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honolulu_County,_Hawaii#Demogra...

danso 13y ago

HN has a policy against numbers in titles as they come off as link-baity...I wish a similar policy applied to titles with such absolute statements as "the best ever" or "what you never knew about..." This map is not the "best" map ever of racial segregation, though it may be the most comprehensive. I'd argue that a more effective map would include some kind of time element, to show how formerly integrated areas slowly became segregated.

knowtheory 13y ago
If that data could be collected/found/cross referenced. I doubt that is a possibility, and thus this probably is one of the 'best' maps of segregation (for some definition of best). Also, this is what a history of segregation looks like. Its worth remembering that small towns, at least in places like Ohio, were so inhospitable to African Americans that they were referred to as "sundown towns" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundown_town http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundown_town ). When people think that racism is over, maps like these serve as a pretty good starting point for asking them to reevaluate their POV. Of course, there's always this you could start with too: http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2013/08/13/white-definitions-merit-and-admissions-change-when-they-think-about-asian-americans http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2013/08/13/white-definiti...

mumbi 13y ago

Oregon looks like a nice place to live </sarcasm> Cool and interesting maps.

davidw 13y ago
> Oregon looks like a nice place to live It is, thanks, if you don't mind the crappy weather.
doktrin 13y ago
> Oregon looks like a nice place to live </sarcasm> Not sure why you applied a sarcasm tag. I can't speak for all of Oregon, but Portland is quite nice.
- mumbi 13y ago
  The sarcasm tag was because Portland is all white. I didn't want to offend anyone.

spodek 13y ago

Here is the actual map, which you can zoom into, scroll, pan, explore your neighborhood, etc. -- http://demographics.coopercenter.org/DotMap/index.html http://demographics.coopercenter.org/DotMap/index.html EDIT: Exploring, I see the island I live on -- Manhattan -- has the four main dot colors well represented, though mainly in blocks. The main mixing is between whites and Asians and between blacks and Hispanics. Notably parts of the Upper West Side, East Village/Lower East Side, and Midtown west show significantly more mixing, at least by eye -- it would be interesting to quantify the data. Some parts of Queens and Brooklyn show mixing of all four dot colors within the same city block. Still, on the whole most dot colors remain in blocks with less mixing on the edges. Some dot colors rarely mix with other dot colors. EDIT TWO: How they made the map is here -- http://www.coopercenter.org/demographics/Racial-Dot-Map http://www.coopercenter.org/demographics/Racial-Dot-Map -- which describes the data sources and links to the code on Github.

xntrk 13y ago
The Map is really cool. I wish you could zoom in more. It's hard to find my actual block on manhattan.
3JPLW 13y ago
Very fascinating. I wish you could link to specific map views. I'd love to send direct links to different areas.
tootie 13y ago
Neighborhoods doesn't tell the whole story in New York because we have a subway. We are integrated at the breating space level on a daily basis.
- mkopinsky 13y ago
  Riding the subway means that as a white New Yorker, you will twice a day share a room with a black person. Whether you interact with them is another story - I'd venture that most people never say a word to anyone in the subway. To understand (likelihood of) interaction, neighborhood maps are one piece of the story, as would be (as mentioned elsewhere in the thread) workplace data.

amerika_blog 13y ago

Stop trying to force people to like one another. Social engineering is not like other forms of engineering; it depends on values outside a count of interchangeable parts. Many of humanity's worst outcomes have emerged from such well-intentioned but oblivious social engineering.

pessimizer 13y ago
Stop projecting.
- deleted 13y ago
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  - pessimizer 13y ago
    Nobody's trying to make anybody do anything, they're making a map of racial distributions. If you see that is a threat, it's because you think that some of the beliefs that you have would be seen as racist - and you're projecting onto the makers of a map. I use white friends to make apartment inquiries for me in neighborhoods known for housing discrimination, do I exist? 150 years ago, white people were far more likely to know and live near black people. Did nature somehow change in the interim? Separate but equal was a set of laws imposing a behavior from above. The equal part wasn't true, and it wasn't 100 years ago. It was the environment that my parents grew up in, and I went to a segregated school myself. It wasn't anything that black people had or have any choice over, or preferred.

Jgrubb 13y ago

That's hilarious, I was wondering if my hometown (ATL) would be broken down, and it's the second one. When I moved back there after college I wanted to do some sort of study of the racial segregation in that city. It's totally along that east-west axis, more precisely at Ponce De Leon Ave. All these upper-class streets that run through the nicest neighborhoods in north Atlanta even change their names as they cross over Ponce. God, I miss that town every now and then. I'd kill for a hot Krispy Kreme right now.

Jtsummers 13y ago
Road name changes often happen at city/county lines where the roads actually changed ownership or used to be separate and ended up joined at some point. Not knowing the history or breakdown of the Atlanta area well, would this make sense there?
GrantS 13y ago
Also from Atlanta here and I'm always most aware of this when riding MARTA to the airport. Once you get south of downtown, it becomes hard to ignore the strange fact that the only white people still on the train are those with luggage. And in case it consoles you to know that others are living your dreams, I just had two donuts at the Krispy Kreme on Ponce earlier this morning -- in fact right around the time of your comment. They were delicious but I should really stop going so often.
- Jgrubb 13y ago
  Aww man. I used to live right around the corner on 3rd street. I don't know if midtown is still as colorful these days, but about ten years ago if you saw an attractive female walking around after dark you could rest assured it was a man. Rural Jersey is slightly less exciting..

k2enemy 13y ago

Thomas Schelling [0] has shown that even if your most preferred neighborhood is a perfect mix of races, it is a dynamically unstable equilibrium (assuming that if the balance tips one way or the other, you prefer it to tip towards your own race). That is, segregated neighborhoods are not necessarily a sign that people prefer segregation -- it is also a natural outcome when people want to live in a mixed neighborhood. There are many interesting simulations of the phenomenon. [1] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Schelling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Schelling [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_XtboyO8jc&noredirect=1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_XtboyO8jc&noredirect=1

bentcorner 13y ago
Here's an implementation of Schelling's model: http://ccl.northwestern.edu/netlogo/models/Segregation http://ccl.northwestern.edu/netlogo/models/Segregation
revelation 13y ago
Do people pick their dwelling by racial mix? I would expect this to be much more of a function of income and means.
- michaelt 13y ago
  Obviously you can't pay more than your means, but the housing market has people bidding against one another for products that differ in dozens of different dimensions. Me, maybe I'm willing to pay more for my favorite architectural style and off-road parking for my motorbike. Maybe you're starting a family, you'll pay more to live in an area with a quality public school, and a park where you can walk your dog. Another person might pay a premium for a safer neighborhood with lower crime rates and more local shops. We all take our preferences, decide what we're willing to pay, and you outbid me because I wasn't willing to pay any premium for that public school (or whatever).
- auctiontheory 13y ago
  Apparently you have never tried to "rent while black."

hedgew 13y ago

Is segregation really the appropriate word here? Separation of the races is coded into our genes and happens naturally without any malicious intent too. It's not much different from the fact that all of us prefer to surround ourselves with people who are similar to ourselves, usually in terms of thinking, hobbies, and interests. Physical attributes influence us as well, whether it's bikers and leather jackets or punks and black spiked clothes. In evolutionary biology this is referred to as "kinship". Not to say that racism isn't worth fighting against, but the more free our societies become the more people on average will follow their natural instincts. A non-racial example of this is Norway, which is likely the most gender equal country in the world, but has also extremely skewed gender distributions in professions such as engineering and nursing; with almost only men in engineering, and women in nursing, despite massive attempts to balance the situation. This could be easily misinterpreted and claimed as evidence that Norway does not respect gender equality, but in fact it's more likely evidence of the opposite! People in Norway are more free to pursue what makes them happy. When we use terms like "segregation" for cases where it might actually be just "separation", we risk causing unnecessary hatred and overblown illusions of racism - misleading us from what actually matters: freedom and equality.

sophacles 13y ago
Can you point to sources that answer any of these questions: * What mechanism does this racial separation take? * What sort of evidence shows that skin color or other ethnic identifiers in genetics are the thing that causes tribal separation vs them just serving as a simple proxy to more complicated factors? * What explanations of exigent factors are there... for example why are there black and hispanic republicans, or white members of traditionally "black gangs". How do these less common (but not rare) group membership issues override the claimed genetic selection? * What genetic factors explain the fracturing of groups within groups of seemingly genetically similar (at least on a racial/ethinc level) people? The claim made here doesn't actually answer any of those questions - I'm not sure the validity of "separation of races is coded in our genes" makes sense given the scenarios highlighted in my questions.
- pessimizer 13y ago

WA 13y ago

I watched once a lecture on Coursera about Schelling's model of segregation, which I found extremely insightful. If you see maps like that with strong segregation, one of the first attempts to explain it is "racism". However, if you divide your neighborhood in 9 blocks such that you are in the center, you have 8 neighbors. Schelling's model now shows that even in cities where most people say:"I'd like to live next to only 35-40% of people who are similar to me (whatever that means exactly, could be ethnical background, skin color, income, ...) and I'd accept 60% of neighbors who are different from me", you would still get a segregation of 80-90% in the city. So, the reason for strong segregation is not necessarily that people are racists. People can be very tolerant, but if you try to fulfill the minimum requirement (40% like me), you end up with strong segregation patterns just because there's no other way to fulfill the minimum requirement for most people. Note: Numbers aren't exact, but pretty close. Edit: Link to lecture: https://class.coursera.org/modelthinking-003/lecture/16 https://class.coursera.org/modelthinking-003/lecture/16

acchow 13y ago
Any chance you have a direct link to the lecture without having to register for a course?
- WA 13y ago
  This is it: https://class.coursera.org/modelthinking-003/lecture/16 https://class.coursera.org/modelthinking-003/lecture/16
twic 13y ago
Reminds me of a similar thing in developmental biology, where if you have two populations of cells, each having a slighly higher affinity for other cells of its own type, then they will very efficiently sort themselves into separate compartments. This is thought to be a pretty important mechanism in the formation and maintenance of structures in the body. In case anyone's interested, here is a nice (if now rather old, although to be honest scientific writing was so much better back in the '90s) review on the whole business: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0092867400812970 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0092867400... In which we find a paragraph describing this process: "The selector genes do more than specify the pattern and the structures that the compartments will eventually make—they also specify, indirectly, a surface property. This property has been termed cell affinity, meaning that cells that share the same affinity, owing to the same binary code of selector genes, will intermingle during growth. There are a number of different experiments that lead to this conclusion, but perhaps the simplest is the observation that when the selector gene engrailed is removed, in vivo, from a posterior clone of cells in the wing, those cells gain anterior affinity: they now sort out from posterior cells and, if they are in contact with anterior cells, will sort into and mingle with them. Cells from neighboring compartments will have different affinities and tend to minimize their mutual contact, so that where the two compartments abut, there is a relatively straight line across which the cells do not stray."

johnbburg 13y ago

I'm surprised they didn't use Washington D.C. as one of the featured images. The contrast is nearly as start as Detroit's.

sputknick 13y ago
What would make the DC map even more interesting would be to watch it over time as more "blue" moves into those "green" areas around Columbia Heights, Petworth, Shaw etc.
flatline 13y ago
Me too - for the lazy: http://i.imgur.com/dBIBuCD.jpg http://i.imgur.com/dBIBuCD.jpg The Rock Creek Park divide is just as noticeable on the map as it is driving around the area. On a larger scale, the SE/NW divide is exactly what you'd expect. Keep in mind that the city itself is (or at least was, before gentrification) predominately black, and the SE areas are the poorest.
rak 13y ago
D.C over time would be a great thing to see.

Pxtl 13y ago

Oh god, I read the comments. I know comments on news sites are awful, but I didn't expect that on Wired.

acchow 13y ago
Rookie mistake. Standard rules apply https://twitter.com/AvoidComments https://twitter.com/AvoidComments

shawnee_ 13y ago

One of the interesting things about this map is that it shows not just distribution, but also density. Non-Caucasian ethnicities are not only concentrated in certain "neighborhoods", they also tend to live in households with far more people per square foot than whites. From the map, overview of the Bay area: http://hackeress.com/ethnic-distribution-bay-area.png http://hackeress.com/ethnic-distribution-bay-area.png

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guard-of-terra 13y ago

Russian here. We won't see a similar map of Moscow for two reasons: 1) Immigrants can't afford any housing. 2) Most rent is private and not reported anywhere; most immigrants are illegal and not accounted anywhere. Moscow won't segregate because people are awfully un-mobile. If this changes, we may share the fate of cities in USA/Europe. The problem is that a lot of immigrants are flowing in (from central asia) and there is no political will to limit their influx / control their quality. Right now all the immigrants work and only resort to crime in dire situations, but I'm afraid this is bound to change if measures are not taken.

jebblue 13y ago

I ran a check with Google using "define: segregation" and the definition included, "the act of setting". The title uses the term segregation perhaps innocently but incorrectly. People live where they choose. If the government said they had to live somewhere then it would be segregation. So it's really a map of where people tend to settle. HN should not have allowed the title to stand as is. Perhaps HN feels it's necessary to engage in sensationalism like some of the other similar sites I never or rarely go to any more for technical news.

mkr-hn 13y ago
Words rarely have a single definition. Those definitions often have substantial history behind them.
- jebblue 13y ago
  I gave you the step to find the top level, world-wide definition in Google. You say there are other definitions. Ok let's check the Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_segregation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_segregation "Segregation itself is defined by the European Commission against Racism and Intolerance as "the act by which a (natural or legal) person separates other persons" If people separate, or group, themselves according to their own desires then that is not segregation according to Google and according to the Wiki which sites at least the "European Commission against Racism and Intolerance". You may disagree with me but I've provided two worldwide known references both in agreement with each other and with me. The use of the word segregation was wrong by the original author and wrong by HN for posting it that way.

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detcader 13y ago

Before this comment forum devolves into the usual level of strife trying to grapple with what race "is," I'd like to offer two articles. What We Mean When We Say 'Race Is a Social Construct' - http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/05/what-we-mean-when-we-say-race-is-a-social-construct/275872/ http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/05/what-we-... The Point Is Not To Interpret Whiteness But To To Abolish It by Noel Ignatiev - http://racetraitor.org/abolishthepoint.html http://racetraitor.org/abolishthepoint.html (the stuff about "White Studies" (obviously contextual) and Marxist tie-ins are totally optional to understanding the central points, I believe)

daigoba66 13y ago

I'd like to see a similar map that explores other attributes such as income, family size, etc.

karlkatzke 13y ago

Dang. I have been looking for a GIS/BigData project, and this was one of my ideas.

BrandonMarc 13y ago
Try doing this for previous datasets, so that you can compare maps and extrapolate trends over time. Say, the 2000, 1990, 1980 census data.

ozh 13y ago

"African American" and "White". This is grotesque. Either say black & white, or african american & caucasian american. Pick one.

protomyth 13y ago

Given the reservations in the US, it would have been nice to see Native Americans have their own color. It would be a nice touch to compare reservation vs. urban conclaves.

cfesta9 13y ago

This is a really cool map! I have a few questions about it though. Racial Segregation are very strong words to use when describing this map. I have lived in Chicago for my whole life. I have heard people say that Chicago is the most segregated city in the US. That line might be true. But when I look at this map it is very hard to draw the assumption that Chicago is incredibly segregated. Looking at this map you could easily say white people live here african american live here and asian / hispanic live here etc... But it is much deeper then the top overview. Chicago has a huge polish , german, irish community. I'm talking about people who have moved from their home country to live in the US. I notice a trend that when polish people move to chicago they move to where polish people live not any old "white" neighborhood they move to a place where they feel comfortable and have common ground. Never in my life have I or the city say white people need to live here and african american live here. There must be a reason that Chinese live on the south side Vietnamese live on the north side and Korean live on the further north side. Latino is the same. I forgot where i was going with this point. But I feel the way we see racial segregation is that some higher power says that we must not live next to each other. When in truth people want to live by their people.

tptacek 13y ago
When people talk about segregation in Chicago, they are mostly referring to the black south and near west side, and to a lesser extent the hispanic near-southwest and Little Village areas. Look closely at the map on this thread, and match it up to a Chicago neighborhood map. Look at the border between Beverly (where I grew up) and Gresham and Brainerd. Look at the borders around Hyde Park. Look at the border between Austin and Oak Park (where I live now). For that matter, look at Lawndale vs Little Village. The borders are sharp, they follow regular lines, and generally involve a 90+% majority black neighborhood on one side. There are a bunch of reasons this happened: * The Great Migration, during which Chicago was a giant magnet for rural black southerners * Redlining, the overtly racist/segregationist practice of refusing home loans to black families in "non-black" neighborhoods * The construction of the Ryan, which displaced black families who ended up moving to places like Englewood * The construction of the CHA high rise housing projects, which were concentrated in areas that would eventually become majority-black * The subsequent flight of white families from places like Englewood, which went from 10% black immediately after WW2 to 98+%(!) black in 1980 It's important to note that with the possible exception of Beverly, which really is a white Irish enclave, the non-black non-hispanic neighborhoods in Chicago aren't intolerant, and have black representation roughly in line with their representation in the population as a whole. If you live in Avondale or Rogers Park or Lakeview, it probably doesn't look at all segregated. Also, Chicago isn't the most segregated city in the US.

munificent 13y ago

It's interesting that you can almost always spot the university areas in a city on this map by looking for the cluster of asians.

frogpelt 13y ago

If there was not hatred (not gonna happen, by the way), would segregation still be a bad thing? Is there something inherently WRONG with people gravitating toward and feeling most comfortable around people who look like themselves?

jccalhoun 13y ago

Interesting project but it seems only useful at all for large cities. I zoomed in on the rural area I live in and there wasn't anything. They mention toggling between color and black and white but there still wasn't anything there.

nonce42 13y ago

Looking at the Bay Area in this map, I noticed a very dense African-American region near Dublin CA that looked out of place. I investigated what it was and was shocked to discover it was the Santa Rita Jail. The map really made it clear how racially skewed the jail population is.

cutie 13y ago

After seeing Los Angeles and the map of the west in general, I believe the Latinos are significantly under-counted. I had anticipated this to some extent in daily life but it was driven home a few years ago. I lived in a very "latino" neighborhood, unusual to see anyone else... When election time came around, I got in line of perhaps 50-100 people at a very busy polling place. Bored, I looked down the line at each person. Gone were the folks I was used to seeing every day, in fact I was hard-pressed to find any. I counted one or two latinos in the whole line, and they were not from the migrant-worker class... i.e. poorer Mexican or Central American Indians. It is probable a larger percentage of these folks will submit to the Census bureau than registering to vote, but how much? As a whole they are not well integrated.

wahsd 13y ago

What I find interesting is that the racial breakdown is still so racist.... White, Black, Asian, Hispanic, Other/Multi-racial ??? It's shameful! It's racist because only the White cohort shares any measurable uniformity. Blacks are African-Americans of slave decent, North, East, South, West, and several other groups in between Africans, Asians are even more differentiated. Really??? Tadjiks, Indians, Chinese, Japanese, Malaysians are all just Asian? It's such a degenerate, lazy, white-centric breakdown. It's a disgrace. Nice map though!

setitimer 13y ago
Italians, Germans, Russians, Irish are all just White? It's such a degenerate, lazy, anti-white breakdown. It's a disgrace.

cjensen 13y ago

I love this map, but really hate the implementation. Dots overlaid on white makes dots really hard to see. I'd love to be able to set the background to black or something. Also, last time this was featured on Fark the map became quickly unusable. Would be nice if they could generate some KML files or something that could be used outside of their website.

ebspelman 13y ago

These guys did an amazing job with the interactive element, but a lot of this is borrowed work! Let's give credit where credit is due: Bill Rankin posted maps in this exact visual style back in 2009. You can see them (and many other amazing maps he's done) at his blog -- http://www.radicalcartography.net/index.html?chicagodots http://www.radicalcartography.net/index.html?chicagodots Eric Fischer picked up Bill's project and ran with it, composing maps for most of the major US cities with census 2010 data. You can see them all on his Flickr page -- http://www.flickr.com/photos/walkingsf/sets/72157624812674967/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/walkingsf/sets/7215762481267496... I love great maps, but it's a little disheartening that these precursor projects aren't mentioned anywhere in the article/comments.

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unhe 13y ago
Jews have Israel? Fact: Israel morally still belongs to Palestinians... Here come the flames
doktrin 13y ago
> The Indians have India. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_India http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_India > "Not enough black folks, no black community" (aka "I want to be with my own kind") Cool anecdote.
- ChrisNorstrom 13y ago
  http://www.livescience.com/20663-black-white-segregated-neighborhoods.html http://www.livescience.com/20663-black-white-segregated-neig... Good day to you sir.

humbyvaldes 13y ago

Hispanic isn't a race

helipad 13y ago

Take a guess where 8 Mile Road is in Detroit: http://cl.ly/image/2m0u3y282M1H http://cl.ly/image/2m0u3y282M1H