4 ms·

I don't have a need for tor. I am not a political activist, I'm not a journalist. I'm not convinced that supporting tor is also not supporting criminal activit

by leokun 13y ago

I don't have a need for tor. I am not a political activist, I'm not a journalist. I'm not convinced that supporting tor is also not supporting criminal activity, such as child pornography and money laundering. I don't want software on my computer that I don't need and I don't like. If Firefox wants to dive deep into controversial and politically complicated topics, that's their right, but I don't have to have them on my computer or support that.

sargun 13y ago
Do you support The Internet? The Internet is used for criminal activity, such as child pornography, and money laundering. ToR is infrastructure, and a utility for the masses. It's up to people on how they want to use it. Why is it worse than the internet?
- leokun 13y ago
  It's a utility I don't have a need for. Sensitive information I don't want to disclose is hidden with SSL encryption. Maybe you have need for tor, I don't.
  - nilved 13y ago
    http://www.wired.com/opinion/2013/06/why-i-have-nothing-to-hide-is-the-wrong-way-to-think-about-surveillance/ http://www.wired.com/opinion/2013/06/why-i-have-nothing-to-h...
  - leokun 13y ago
    Nilved, I didn't say I support NSA surveillance and wholesale data collection.
marshray 13y ago
Tor has no specific features that make it useful for child pornography or money laundering, so it sounds like you just object to anonymity for TCP clients in general. You're certainly free to continue telling every server your client machine's location and your ISP about every server to which you connect. But that's not going to help children or fight any crime. To me, possibly the best thing we can do to protect our children today is to enable them to grow up with a shred of privacy, without the baggage of an unknowable amount of juvenile internet browsing history following them into adulthood to be sold and traded by evil men who would be their masters. That's the industrial scale child exploitation, that is.
- contingencies 13y ago
  Best. Comment. Ever.
- leokun 13y ago
  I do not object to anonymity for TCP clients in general. I've setup squid on AWS proxies when I've wanted anonymity, like in open wifi areas. People can set up VPNs or sign up to those services if they want to protect their network activity, which should all be sufficient for most use cases, including avoiding ISP monitoring your activity. Tor on the other hand is used to avoid law enforcement and government surveillance. I'm not a journalist, I'm not politically active, and I'm not engaged in criminal activity, and I'm not going to support something that can aid people avoid justice for their misdeeds. I think journalists should come up with their own solution that can't be taken advantage of by bad people who do bad things.
  - nknighthb 13y ago
    So, let's dispense with the bill of rights, and let innocent people falsely accused of crimes come up with their own solution, 'cause we don't want to protect criminals' rights?
  - salgernon 13y ago
    How would you feel if this anonymity were built into the networking protocols from the beginning? When the non-anonymous web first became popular and was used for child pornography and money laundering (as it still is) - did you object to using it? USPS or FedEx can also be used to (trivially) ship contraband material, even anonymously. I'm far more concerned about companies like Facebook tracking and recording my every activity than I am the NSA or law enforcement - I'm boring to the NSA, but my product research and online purchasing behaviors are pure gold to the corporate world.
  - chakalakasp 13y ago
    Circa 1995: "I think researchers and computer scientists should come up with their own solution to display text and images that can't be exploited by bad people. I will never support the World Wide Web. Gopher all the way, baby!" A bit tongue in cheek, but lets be serious - there is no technology in existence that can't be exploited by bad people. Tor is a tool, it can be used for good or for naughty or for boring. Like most every other online tool or protocol out there.
Xylakant 13y ago
Do you really think that you have no need for Tor? The journalists and political activists rely on Tor and they do a crucial job for all of us, including you. And Tor gets better for them if more people use it, more traffic means it gets harder for adversaries to filter out a specific connection. Sure, Tor can be used for nefarious purposes, child pornography and money laundering - but so can the regular mail, the telephone, the internet, public roads or in general pretty much every piece of technology. Is that a reason for wholesale surveillance and abolishment of privacy? I don't think so.

by leokun 13y ago

sargun 13y ago

Do you support The Internet? The Internet is used for criminal activity, such as child pornography, and money laundering. ToR is infrastructure, and a utility for the masses. It's up to people on how they want to use it. Why is it worse than the internet?

leokun 13y ago
It's a utility I don't have a need for. Sensitive information I don't want to disclose is hidden with SSL encryption. Maybe you have need for tor, I don't.
- nilved 13y ago
  http://www.wired.com/opinion/2013/06/why-i-have-nothing-to-hide-is-the-wrong-way-to-think-about-surveillance/ http://www.wired.com/opinion/2013/06/why-i-have-nothing-to-h...
- leokun 13y ago
  Nilved, I didn't say I support NSA surveillance and wholesale data collection.

marshray 13y ago

Tor has no specific features that make it useful for child pornography or money laundering, so it sounds like you just object to anonymity for TCP clients in general. You're certainly free to continue telling every server your client machine's location and your ISP about every server to which you connect. But that's not going to help children or fight any crime. To me, possibly the best thing we can do to protect our children today is to enable them to grow up with a shred of privacy, without the baggage of an unknowable amount of juvenile internet browsing history following them into adulthood to be sold and traded by evil men who would be their masters. That's the industrial scale child exploitation, that is.

contingencies 13y ago
Best. Comment. Ever.
leokun 13y ago
I do not object to anonymity for TCP clients in general. I've setup squid on AWS proxies when I've wanted anonymity, like in open wifi areas. People can set up VPNs or sign up to those services if they want to protect their network activity, which should all be sufficient for most use cases, including avoiding ISP monitoring your activity. Tor on the other hand is used to avoid law enforcement and government surveillance. I'm not a journalist, I'm not politically active, and I'm not engaged in criminal activity, and I'm not going to support something that can aid people avoid justice for their misdeeds. I think journalists should come up with their own solution that can't be taken advantage of by bad people who do bad things.
- nknighthb 13y ago
  So, let's dispense with the bill of rights, and let innocent people falsely accused of crimes come up with their own solution, 'cause we don't want to protect criminals' rights?
- salgernon 13y ago
  How would you feel if this anonymity were built into the networking protocols from the beginning? When the non-anonymous web first became popular and was used for child pornography and money laundering (as it still is) - did you object to using it? USPS or FedEx can also be used to (trivially) ship contraband material, even anonymously. I'm far more concerned about companies like Facebook tracking and recording my every activity than I am the NSA or law enforcement - I'm boring to the NSA, but my product research and online purchasing behaviors are pure gold to the corporate world.
- chakalakasp 13y ago
  Circa 1995: "I think researchers and computer scientists should come up with their own solution to display text and images that can't be exploited by bad people. I will never support the World Wide Web. Gopher all the way, baby!" A bit tongue in cheek, but lets be serious - there is no technology in existence that can't be exploited by bad people. Tor is a tool, it can be used for good or for naughty or for boring. Like most every other online tool or protocol out there.

Xylakant 13y ago

Do you really think that you have no need for Tor? The journalists and political activists rely on Tor and they do a crucial job for all of us, including you. And Tor gets better for them if more people use it, more traffic means it gets harder for adversaries to filter out a specific connection. Sure, Tor can be used for nefarious purposes, child pornography and money laundering - but so can the regular mail, the telephone, the internet, public roads or in general pretty much every piece of technology. Is that a reason for wholesale surveillance and abolishment of privacy? I don't think so.