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We need a distributed third-party platform that is technologically unable to force a single payment portal. I don't know what that would look like technological

We need a distributed third-party platform that is technologically unable to force a single payment portal. I don't know what that would look like technologically but I'd like to have it.

anxiousest 13y ago
Now that Google insists on a payment method all of the sudden "we need" third-party solutions?! no one had objections about Apple and Amazon doing so, at least Google allows third-party app stores and sideloading.
- PommeDeTerre 13y ago
  What makes you think that "no one had objections about Apple and Amazon doing so"? Lots of people did. Lots of people have been quite vocal in their dislike of the so-called "walled garden" practices of various organizations. Google and Android have generally provided a relatively open third-party alternative to what Apple and others are offering. If the degree of openness is changing, however, then I can see people speaking out against them, too, and possibly looking for alternatives.
- WayneDB 13y ago
  Damn right we need third-party solutions. Everbody has been complaining about lock-in... ever since it was invented.
- protomyth 13y ago
  I do object to Apple on this issue, but it is a very hard problem to allow 3rd party payments. It creates support issues and we are talking about a consumer device. I think it is a problem they should have solved, but greed is fun. I am especially dismayed because Apple is forcing app developers to sell app with no upgrades except in-app purchases. When a new version comes out, the consumer either gets it free or at full price. Apple can do this because they don't really care about customer loyalty on that level. As an app developer, you can sell "feature packs", but that is really confusing and a burden.
sp332 13y ago
You can still make Android apps that don't use Google's billing service. You just can't sell them on the Play Store. There are alternative app stores. I think Amazon's is the most popular.
PommeDeTerre 13y ago
That platform already exists. It's the "platform" that naturally happens when there aren't any "app stores" or "app marketplaces", and when devices aren't artificially crippled to prevent users from freely installing software. It's a bunch of people and organizations around the world offering their software for download over the Internet. It's other people who then possibly pay for and download those apps. It's distributed, it can optionally include compensation, and how that compensation is delivered is up to the app creator and purchaser. It may not be as pretty or convenient as what Apple or Google offer, but at least it has the freedom that's desired. Of course, a package system like dpkg or pkgsrc can be used to help make it far more convenient to find and install software. And websites offering a directory of available software can help with this, too. All of this already exists. I think that a lot of people have just forgotten about it within the past five or six years.
- reginaldjcooper 13y ago
  No I mean the platforms from Apple and Google are too convenient to ignore, which causes a feedback loop that is good for individuals but bad for the group. I agree that download over the internet is better as in more libre, but then developers and users lose the convenience of having a simple way to pay and a simple CDN and update system that developers don't need to deal with. The users buy less and it makes less sense for developers to distribute software that way.
hahainternet 13y ago
There are many alternative app stores. I don't think Google is forcing this as much as Apple either.
- Ecio78 13y ago
  is there any article/research about market shares of alternative app stores? or, seen from a dev point of view, revenues on alternative app store? I suspect they are both negligible..
  - hahainternet 13y ago
    I am not aware of any statistics, but Amazon is a fairly well known alternative that's on every Kindle Fire as far as I am aware.
protomyth 13y ago
Since it is directed at the typical person, it would seem a better solution would be for an app store to certify different 3rd party payment providers and lock out the rest. It would also be helpful if a person could select the payment providers they trust and be warned about apps that use someone else.
jwatte 13y ago
You mean like Bitcoins? US government is not amused. Power relies on control.

We need a distributed third-party platform that is technologically unable to force a single payment portal. I don't know what that would look like technologically but I'd like to have it.

anxiousest 13y ago

Now that Google insists on a payment method all of the sudden "we need" third-party solutions?! no one had objections about Apple and Amazon doing so, at least Google allows third-party app stores and sideloading.

PommeDeTerre 13y ago
What makes you think that "no one had objections about Apple and Amazon doing so"? Lots of people did. Lots of people have been quite vocal in their dislike of the so-called "walled garden" practices of various organizations. Google and Android have generally provided a relatively open third-party alternative to what Apple and others are offering. If the degree of openness is changing, however, then I can see people speaking out against them, too, and possibly looking for alternatives.
WayneDB 13y ago
Damn right we need third-party solutions. Everbody has been complaining about lock-in... ever since it was invented.
protomyth 13y ago
I do object to Apple on this issue, but it is a very hard problem to allow 3rd party payments. It creates support issues and we are talking about a consumer device. I think it is a problem they should have solved, but greed is fun. I am especially dismayed because Apple is forcing app developers to sell app with no upgrades except in-app purchases. When a new version comes out, the consumer either gets it free or at full price. Apple can do this because they don't really care about customer loyalty on that level. As an app developer, you can sell "feature packs", but that is really confusing and a burden.

sp332 13y ago

You can still make Android apps that don't use Google's billing service. You just can't sell them on the Play Store. There are alternative app stores. I think Amazon's is the most popular.

PommeDeTerre 13y ago

That platform already exists. It's the "platform" that naturally happens when there aren't any "app stores" or "app marketplaces", and when devices aren't artificially crippled to prevent users from freely installing software. It's a bunch of people and organizations around the world offering their software for download over the Internet. It's other people who then possibly pay for and download those apps. It's distributed, it can optionally include compensation, and how that compensation is delivered is up to the app creator and purchaser. It may not be as pretty or convenient as what Apple or Google offer, but at least it has the freedom that's desired. Of course, a package system like dpkg or pkgsrc can be used to help make it far more convenient to find and install software. And websites offering a directory of available software can help with this, too. All of this already exists. I think that a lot of people have just forgotten about it within the past five or six years.

reginaldjcooper 13y ago
No I mean the platforms from Apple and Google are too convenient to ignore, which causes a feedback loop that is good for individuals but bad for the group. I agree that download over the internet is better as in more libre, but then developers and users lose the convenience of having a simple way to pay and a simple CDN and update system that developers don't need to deal with. The users buy less and it makes less sense for developers to distribute software that way.

hahainternet 13y ago

There are many alternative app stores. I don't think Google is forcing this as much as Apple either.

Ecio78 13y ago
is there any article/research about market shares of alternative app stores? or, seen from a dev point of view, revenues on alternative app store? I suspect they are both negligible..
- hahainternet 13y ago
  I am not aware of any statistics, but Amazon is a fairly well known alternative that's on every Kindle Fire as far as I am aware.

protomyth 13y ago

Since it is directed at the typical person, it would seem a better solution would be for an app store to certify different 3rd party payment providers and lock out the rest. It would also be helpful if a person could select the payment providers they trust and be warned about apps that use someone else.

jwatte 13y ago

You mean like Bitcoins? US government is not amused. Power relies on control.