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You know, I've read a bunch of Zed's articles, and I always end up thinking that he's the source of most of his problems. There was a talk I saw him give (can't

You know, I've read a bunch of Zed's articles, and I always end up thinking that he's the source of most of his problems. There was a talk I saw him give (can't find the link) to a bunch of college kids where he basically said "phone in your job, do the stuff you love on your own time, everyone else is retarded and they'll never understand you." Great attitude you have there. I know guys like that; guys who are extremely egotistical, are always right, and know everything about everything. They're team killing, energy sucking, wastes. He may be able to hack like a dream, and "thanks for Mongrel" and all, but I wouldn't even want to be in the same room as him. I think from now on I'll do my best to ignore Zed's perspectives on life; they're more than a little skewed.

batasrki 17y ago
The talk is from CUSEC, probably this one: http://vimeo.com/2723800 http://vimeo.com/2723800 As for his "attitude", I've actually met him and talked to him face-to-face. His internet persona is a put-on and he only talks like that to piss people off. In actuality, he's a really nice guy who is super-smart and who does not take shit from people. It's actually too bad that there aren't more of him in our industry. Scope creeps, memory leaks, etc. would be a thing of the past.
- ironkeith 17y ago
  You are who your project yourself as, and to the billions of people who haven't met him who may stumble across his stuff online, he comes across as a selfish dick. IRL he could be happiness and teddy bears stuffed with sunshine, but so far as I'm concerned if the industry was full of people like him it would be in ruins. Also, that was the exact video I was talking about, so thanks.
- PonyGumbo 17y ago
  Thanks for posting this. I went from despising Shaw (based on his writings) to kind of liking him.
  - mahmud 17y ago
    You like someone for being a double-faced troll? IMO, I like him less now because he actually doesn't believe in what he says online.
    - deleted 17y ago
      [deleted]
GHFigs 17y ago
phone in your job I know the talk you're referring to and he did not say this. He does suggest doing your best and working really hard to make sure your employers get what they want. Do the job you're paid to do and do it well. What he advises against is going the extra mile for a company that does not trust your judgement and that you have no stake in. Leave work at work. Your job is not your life. You don't owe them anything that they aren't paying for, least of all your creativity. I don't see how that can be construed as telling them to phone it in. everyone else is retarded In fact he points out several times that the people in charge at most companies are not stupid, they're just clueless about technology; not a very contentious statement last I checked. The whole first half of the talk is explaining this to an audience that has has yet to encounter it in the real world, and how to advocate for superior technical solutions in spite of it, with such "team killing, energy sucking" advice as be objective, honest, and prepared for hard technical questions. Truly industry-ruining suggestions. I strongly suggest you watch the talk again. Even for someone that doesn't like him, you seem to have missed the point of it entirely.
- ironkeith 17y ago
  You'll forgive my hyperbole, but I was trying to make a point. What I'm trying to get at is the reason the people in charge of most companies are "clueless about technology" is that some technical people aren't capable of speaking to them in their language. The people in charge are going to be more concerned with how these issues affect their bottom line, if you can't communicate in those terms you'll rarely be effective. Zed goes on forever about how his solution was technically better in every manner possible, but he was unable to convince the powers that be that he was right. This is a communication issue likely brought about by his "I'm a genius, and you aren't smart enough to understand" attitude. This isn't because business people are arrogant, pig headed assholes (though some certainly are). No, they don't get the tech, but I for one am willing to take the time to help them understand why these things matter and why they should give a shit. Yes, it sucks, but I feel that not doing so would be doing my employer a disservice. What I dislike about that talk is that Zed basically abdicates responsibility for having to communicate with non-technical people because they'll never be smart enough to understand, when it's really his failing that they don't understand in the first place. Further, Zed's attitude towards others is beyond condescending. He may pay lip service to the people in charge and say "they're just clueless about technology", but it's so abundantly clear how little he values them, and the jobs they provide. "Working hard and doing a good job", but doing something that you know is both wrong and dumb is phoning it in. It's doing what you're supposed to because you couldn't give a shit about the company, or what becomes of it. It just rubs me the wrong way.
donaq 17y ago
They're team killing, energy sucking, wastes. You do realize that this could have been written by Zed?

batasrki 17y ago

The talk is from CUSEC, probably this one: http://vimeo.com/2723800 http://vimeo.com/2723800 As for his "attitude", I've actually met him and talked to him face-to-face. His internet persona is a put-on and he only talks like that to piss people off. In actuality, he's a really nice guy who is super-smart and who does not take shit from people. It's actually too bad that there aren't more of him in our industry. Scope creeps, memory leaks, etc. would be a thing of the past.

ironkeith 17y ago
You are who your project yourself as, and to the billions of people who haven't met him who may stumble across his stuff online, he comes across as a selfish dick. IRL he could be happiness and teddy bears stuffed with sunshine, but so far as I'm concerned if the industry was full of people like him it would be in ruins. Also, that was the exact video I was talking about, so thanks.
PonyGumbo 17y ago
Thanks for posting this. I went from despising Shaw (based on his writings) to kind of liking him.
- mahmud 17y ago
  You like someone for being a double-faced troll? IMO, I like him less now because he actually doesn't believe in what he says online.
  - deleted 17y ago
    [deleted]

GHFigs 17y ago

phone in your job I know the talk you're referring to and he did not say this. He does suggest doing your best and working really hard to make sure your employers get what they want. Do the job you're paid to do and do it well. What he advises against is going the extra mile for a company that does not trust your judgement and that you have no stake in. Leave work at work. Your job is not your life. You don't owe them anything that they aren't paying for, least of all your creativity. I don't see how that can be construed as telling them to phone it in. everyone else is retarded In fact he points out several times that the people in charge at most companies are not stupid, they're just clueless about technology; not a very contentious statement last I checked. The whole first half of the talk is explaining this to an audience that has has yet to encounter it in the real world, and how to advocate for superior technical solutions in spite of it, with such "team killing, energy sucking" advice as be objective, honest, and prepared for hard technical questions. Truly industry-ruining suggestions. I strongly suggest you watch the talk again. Even for someone that doesn't like him, you seem to have missed the point of it entirely.

ironkeith 17y ago
You'll forgive my hyperbole, but I was trying to make a point. What I'm trying to get at is the reason the people in charge of most companies are "clueless about technology" is that some technical people aren't capable of speaking to them in their language. The people in charge are going to be more concerned with how these issues affect their bottom line, if you can't communicate in those terms you'll rarely be effective. Zed goes on forever about how his solution was technically better in every manner possible, but he was unable to convince the powers that be that he was right. This is a communication issue likely brought about by his "I'm a genius, and you aren't smart enough to understand" attitude. This isn't because business people are arrogant, pig headed assholes (though some certainly are). No, they don't get the tech, but I for one am willing to take the time to help them understand why these things matter and why they should give a shit. Yes, it sucks, but I feel that not doing so would be doing my employer a disservice. What I dislike about that talk is that Zed basically abdicates responsibility for having to communicate with non-technical people because they'll never be smart enough to understand, when it's really his failing that they don't understand in the first place. Further, Zed's attitude towards others is beyond condescending. He may pay lip service to the people in charge and say "they're just clueless about technology", but it's so abundantly clear how little he values them, and the jobs they provide. "Working hard and doing a good job", but doing something that you know is both wrong and dumb is phoning it in. It's doing what you're supposed to because you couldn't give a shit about the company, or what becomes of it. It just rubs me the wrong way.

donaq 17y ago

They're team killing, energy sucking, wastes. You do realize that this could have been written by Zed?