9 ms·

Is "since the 70's" some sort of ironic joke? US industries were extremely and overtly anti-competitive up until the deregulation of the 1970's. If competition

Is "since the 70's" some sort of ironic joke? US industries were extremely and overtly anti-competitive up until the deregulation of the 1970's. If competition is restricted now, it was far worse in the past. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staggers_Rail_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staggers_Rail_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_Carrier_Act_of_1980 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_Carrier_Act_of_1980 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline_Deregulation_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline_Deregulation_Act

jtoeman 13y ago
like Airbnb getting sued in New York? or Uber/Lyft/etc having to go through extortionary-like procedures in California? ...
- mbreese 13y ago
  Some regulation can be good. Airbnb, Lyft and to a lesser degree Uber (definitely UberX) are all competing with established industries that are heavily regulated for a reason. Hotels and taxis are regulated to protect consumers (think safety). Requiring car manufacturers to sell via franchised dealers protects franchised dealers. That's a big difference.
  - hearty778 13y ago
    Has there been a wave of consumer harm caused by Uber? What makes taxis safer than Uber?
    - mbreese 13y ago
      Not that I know of. Uber, I think, has done a good job of running a good, self-regulated, business in leu of government regulation. I'm less worried about Uber specifically than the non-medallion transportation sector in general. Taxis are regulated because you could have issues when someone gets into a random person's car. You can imagine how that would be dangerous for consumers (both physically and financially). I personally like Uber a lot and had a good experience when I was able to use them. But, you could see how a lesser competitor could cut corners in background checking their drivers. I'd rather have somethings explicitly regulated than trust that all companies are interested in spending money on things like background checks. AirBnB has the same flaws, but even more pronounced.
- unknownian 13y ago
  >or Uber/Lyft/etc having to go through extortionary-like procedures in California? Forgive me for not knowing all the details, but what is the extortion in the fact that Taxi co's have to pay fees that Uber and Lyft don't? I'm guessing there is more to this than I know.
  - 7Figures2Commas 13y ago
    Some people have a hard time grasping the idea that you can be against unnecessary, foolish laws without being for companies that flout them.
  - jarrett 13y ago
    Extortion is perhaps not the most accurate word, going strictly by its definition. Anyway, the objection isn't to taxation of taxis, but rather to outright excluding new entrants to the taxi market. Which many cities do, via the medallion system.
    - dmayle 13y ago
      I must admit, I don't see how it's extortion. It's capitalism at it's finest (by forcing the consideration of externalities as a free-market commodity). Since space in the streets is a fixed size-resource, supply and demand work to price medallions accordingly. If anything, the city sells medallions (referring to NYC) at a rate much lower than their actual value on the free market.
      - jtoeman 13y ago
        by definition, the city selling a fixed quantity of medallions is NOT capitalism at its finest. enabling an infinite number of providers to charge any price for any service they want, then letting those with the best offering win, is capitalism at its finest. the moment the government gets involved in limiting distribution you veer away from open markets/capitalism. not that i'm a huge fan of unfettered capitalism, but just clarifying...
      - jarrett 13y ago
- throwaway_yy2Di 13y ago
  I'm not arguing that US is universally free-market today, rather that it was less free-market 50 years ago.
  - jtoeman 13y ago
    i don't really agree. other than some deregulation (power, cable, etc), for the most part i'd say the government today is more intertwined with lobbyists/big corporations' interests at heart than they used to be...
    - hearty778 13y ago
      Car franchise laws and taxi medallions didn't exist in the 70s?
  - rtpg 13y ago
    I'm really tired of people trying to set an equivalence between free markets and lack of regulation. I don't know if that's exactly what you're trying to do but: A free market is a very specific definition, there are things like atomicity of actors and whatnot. Loads of regulations can help meet that, for example: -Governments handing out tax credits to new companies helps free markets -Governments setting in anti-trust laws helps free markets -Governments setting disclosure regulations helps free markets Some regulations harm free markets (namely things like entry controls), but others protect it. We need to learn to make the distinction
grecy 13y ago
> Is "since the 70's" some sort of ironic joke? No. Some time ago the United States was a world leader in terms of the standard of living for the average citizen. Now it's dead last among developed countries, and by many measures, it's solidly among developing countries. I, personally, think that fall from grace began around the 70's (ish) when the "We're the greatest" mentality put a stop to innovation. Basically, the United States has remained where it was all those years ago, while other Developed countries have shot ahead.
- saraid216 13y ago
  > I, personally, think that fall from grace began around the 70's (ish) when the "We're the greatest" mentality put a stop to innovation. You mean the mentality that motivated deregulation?
- hearty778 13y ago
  This is completely false. What measure of standard of living are you using?
  - grecy 13y ago
    The US is at or very near the worst among OECD countries, and often comparable to developing countires in: infant mortality, child poverty, child health and safety, life expectancy at birth, healthy life expectancy, rate of obesity, disability-adjusted life years, doctors per 1000 people, deaths from treatable conditions, rate of mental health disorders, rate of drug abuse, rate of prescription drug use, incarceration rate, rate of assaults, rate of homicides, rate of firearm deaths, rate of accidental firearm deaths and injuries, income inequality, wealth inequality, and economic mobility. See for yourself: http://www.oecd.org/statistics/ http://www.oecd.org/statistics/

jtoeman 13y ago

like Airbnb getting sued in New York? or Uber/Lyft/etc having to go through extortionary-like procedures in California? ...

mbreese 13y ago
Some regulation can be good. Airbnb, Lyft and to a lesser degree Uber (definitely UberX) are all competing with established industries that are heavily regulated for a reason. Hotels and taxis are regulated to protect consumers (think safety). Requiring car manufacturers to sell via franchised dealers protects franchised dealers. That's a big difference.
- hearty778 13y ago
  Has there been a wave of consumer harm caused by Uber? What makes taxis safer than Uber?
  - mbreese 13y ago
    Not that I know of. Uber, I think, has done a good job of running a good, self-regulated, business in leu of government regulation. I'm less worried about Uber specifically than the non-medallion transportation sector in general. Taxis are regulated because you could have issues when someone gets into a random person's car. You can imagine how that would be dangerous for consumers (both physically and financially). I personally like Uber a lot and had a good experience when I was able to use them. But, you could see how a lesser competitor could cut corners in background checking their drivers. I'd rather have somethings explicitly regulated than trust that all companies are interested in spending money on things like background checks. AirBnB has the same flaws, but even more pronounced.
unknownian 13y ago
>or Uber/Lyft/etc having to go through extortionary-like procedures in California? Forgive me for not knowing all the details, but what is the extortion in the fact that Taxi co's have to pay fees that Uber and Lyft don't? I'm guessing there is more to this than I know.
- 7Figures2Commas 13y ago
  Some people have a hard time grasping the idea that you can be against unnecessary, foolish laws without being for companies that flout them.
- jarrett 13y ago
  Extortion is perhaps not the most accurate word, going strictly by its definition. Anyway, the objection isn't to taxation of taxis, but rather to outright excluding new entrants to the taxi market. Which many cities do, via the medallion system.
  - dmayle 13y ago
    I must admit, I don't see how it's extortion. It's capitalism at it's finest (by forcing the consideration of externalities as a free-market commodity). Since space in the streets is a fixed size-resource, supply and demand work to price medallions accordingly. If anything, the city sells medallions (referring to NYC) at a rate much lower than their actual value on the free market.
    - jtoeman 13y ago
      by definition, the city selling a fixed quantity of medallions is NOT capitalism at its finest. enabling an infinite number of providers to charge any price for any service they want, then letting those with the best offering win, is capitalism at its finest. the moment the government gets involved in limiting distribution you veer away from open markets/capitalism. not that i'm a huge fan of unfettered capitalism, but just clarifying...
    - jarrett 13y ago
throwaway_yy2Di 13y ago
I'm not arguing that US is universally free-market today, rather that it was less free-market 50 years ago.
- jtoeman 13y ago
  i don't really agree. other than some deregulation (power, cable, etc), for the most part i'd say the government today is more intertwined with lobbyists/big corporations' interests at heart than they used to be...
  - hearty778 13y ago
    Car franchise laws and taxi medallions didn't exist in the 70s?
- rtpg 13y ago
  I'm really tired of people trying to set an equivalence between free markets and lack of regulation. I don't know if that's exactly what you're trying to do but: A free market is a very specific definition, there are things like atomicity of actors and whatnot. Loads of regulations can help meet that, for example: -Governments handing out tax credits to new companies helps free markets -Governments setting in anti-trust laws helps free markets -Governments setting disclosure regulations helps free markets Some regulations harm free markets (namely things like entry controls), but others protect it. We need to learn to make the distinction

grecy 13y ago

> Is "since the 70's" some sort of ironic joke? No. Some time ago the United States was a world leader in terms of the standard of living for the average citizen. Now it's dead last among developed countries, and by many measures, it's solidly among developing countries. I, personally, think that fall from grace began around the 70's (ish) when the "We're the greatest" mentality put a stop to innovation. Basically, the United States has remained where it was all those years ago, while other Developed countries have shot ahead.

saraid216 13y ago
> I, personally, think that fall from grace began around the 70's (ish) when the "We're the greatest" mentality put a stop to innovation. You mean the mentality that motivated deregulation?
hearty778 13y ago
This is completely false. What measure of standard of living are you using?
- grecy 13y ago
  The US is at or very near the worst among OECD countries, and often comparable to developing countires in: infant mortality, child poverty, child health and safety, life expectancy at birth, healthy life expectancy, rate of obesity, disability-adjusted life years, doctors per 1000 people, deaths from treatable conditions, rate of mental health disorders, rate of drug abuse, rate of prescription drug use, incarceration rate, rate of assaults, rate of homicides, rate of firearm deaths, rate of accidental firearm deaths and injuries, income inequality, wealth inequality, and economic mobility. See for yourself: http://www.oecd.org/statistics/ http://www.oecd.org/statistics/