4 ms·

Mr. Kreitman, X.Org accountant, is an idiot. If they were late to file for ONE year... maybe I'd be more sympathetic. But NEVER filing? Incompetence. Stupid

Mr. Kreitman, X.Org accountant, is an idiot. If they were late to file for ONE year... maybe I'd be more sympathetic. But NEVER filing? Incompetence. Stupidity. There's no nicer way to put it, no other way to spin it.

dnautics 13y ago
yeah, if it is actually the case that they have had no revenue and no costs, then filing a 990 is dead simple. You write down a bunch of zeroes. It literally takes an hour. More importantly though, why did the board not clamp down on them?
- nolok 13y ago
  Isn't the fact that it takes an hour to say nothing happened a proof that the tax reporting system is way too convoluted ? Note that I'm not speaking in this particular case or trying to say it's not his fault (it is), but in general.
  - kenko 13y ago
    No? (If it really is just writing down a bunch of zeroes, though, it probably doesn't take a whole hour.)
    - dnautics 13y ago
      You do have to do a bit more than write down zeroes, you have to put your EIN on the top of every page, make sure your addresses are all correct, make sure you didn't miss any of the other little things, then take it to the post office, etc, etc, etc. It's seventeen pages of zeros and checks. If you want to see what a zeroed 990 looks like: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0By7AdX1eMEY2LUp6SG1TZlpkTzA&usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0By7AdX1eMEY2LUp6SG1T... The careful eye will note on p. 13 where I screwed up on the e-version, and so the scanned (and sent) version has hand-written checkmarks. It's a good idea to dot your eyes and cross your ts on these forms. There's also a 199 there, which is the state equivalent of the federal form.
  - shawnz 13y ago
    Not really. Consider that you're spending an hour per year to say that nothing happened for that whole year.
  - freiheit 13y ago
    http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f990ez.pdf http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f990ez.pdf is probably what they needed to file. In the case of non-profits, the IRS is providing oversight that the non-profit is actually acting as a non-profit and doing good (very broadly defined) in the world. It's a check against people running a non-profit that doesn't do anything but make a few people rich.
    - dnautics 13y ago
      X.org should probably be filing the full 990, especially if they expect to (someday) be pulling a lot of contributions. The 990EZ is more like for small local outfits that don't really expect to ever get big and expect to be mostly run on volunteer labor for the foreseeable future. They could get away with filing a 990EZ, but getting into the practice of doing the full 990 is not a bad idea.
      - ams6110 13y ago
        Small local nonprofits can probably even file the 990-N, an "e-postcard" Surprisingly the IRS really does not make life difficult for non-profits.
  - dnautics 13y ago
    Maybe. 501(c)(3) is a special class of tax exempt organization where not only is the organization exempt for taxation, but donors can claim a tax deduction. So in a certain way it's a privilege, not a right. I'm as libertarian as they come, but corporate taxes and all their byzantine systems are not like a personal income tax, where you can go to jail or have your wife and child shot for not paying up - it kind of is an opt-in system. So there is somewhat of a categorical difference.
- alex-g 13y ago
  With receipts under $50k they could do a 990N, which is pretty much "what is your name?" and job done. (Their 2012 status report said they were spending $20-30k per year from a roughly $200k pot, with little attempt at raising more money for the time being.)
- Amadou 13y ago
  if it is actually the case that they have had no revenue and no costs, then filing a 990 is dead simple. If they had no revenue are they even required to file at all? I know that for personal income if you do not owe any additional tax than has already been collected then there is no requirement to file. Since they didn't get 501c3 status until 2012, the 990 doesn't seem appropriate except for this most recent year anyway.
  - dnautics 13y ago
    >If they had no revenue are they even required to file at all? Yes. > Since they didn't get 501c3 status until 2012, the 990 doesn't seem appropriate except for this most recent year anyway. All nonprofits with an EIN need to file 990s even if you don't have 501(c)(3) status. Corporations are not individuals so there are different rules. The rules for registered nonprofits are stricter than for-profits - AND screwing them up can jeopardize attempts to get 501(c)(3) down the line, although typicially the IRS will be reasonable, if you make a handful of trivial mistakes here and there they won't kill you.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]

dnautics 13y ago

yeah, if it is actually the case that they have had no revenue and no costs, then filing a 990 is dead simple. You write down a bunch of zeroes. It literally takes an hour. More importantly though, why did the board not clamp down on them?

nolok 13y ago
Isn't the fact that it takes an hour to say nothing happened a proof that the tax reporting system is way too convoluted ? Note that I'm not speaking in this particular case or trying to say it's not his fault (it is), but in general.
- kenko 13y ago
  No? (If it really is just writing down a bunch of zeroes, though, it probably doesn't take a whole hour.)
  - dnautics 13y ago
    You do have to do a bit more than write down zeroes, you have to put your EIN on the top of every page, make sure your addresses are all correct, make sure you didn't miss any of the other little things, then take it to the post office, etc, etc, etc. It's seventeen pages of zeros and checks. If you want to see what a zeroed 990 looks like: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0By7AdX1eMEY2LUp6SG1TZlpkTzA&usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0By7AdX1eMEY2LUp6SG1T... The careful eye will note on p. 13 where I screwed up on the e-version, and so the scanned (and sent) version has hand-written checkmarks. It's a good idea to dot your eyes and cross your ts on these forms. There's also a 199 there, which is the state equivalent of the federal form.
- shawnz 13y ago
  Not really. Consider that you're spending an hour per year to say that nothing happened for that whole year.
- freiheit 13y ago
  http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f990ez.pdf http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f990ez.pdf is probably what they needed to file. In the case of non-profits, the IRS is providing oversight that the non-profit is actually acting as a non-profit and doing good (very broadly defined) in the world. It's a check against people running a non-profit that doesn't do anything but make a few people rich.
  - dnautics 13y ago
    X.org should probably be filing the full 990, especially if they expect to (someday) be pulling a lot of contributions. The 990EZ is more like for small local outfits that don't really expect to ever get big and expect to be mostly run on volunteer labor for the foreseeable future. They could get away with filing a 990EZ, but getting into the practice of doing the full 990 is not a bad idea.
    - ams6110 13y ago
      Small local nonprofits can probably even file the 990-N, an "e-postcard" Surprisingly the IRS really does not make life difficult for non-profits.
- dnautics 13y ago
  Maybe. 501(c)(3) is a special class of tax exempt organization where not only is the organization exempt for taxation, but donors can claim a tax deduction. So in a certain way it's a privilege, not a right. I'm as libertarian as they come, but corporate taxes and all their byzantine systems are not like a personal income tax, where you can go to jail or have your wife and child shot for not paying up - it kind of is an opt-in system. So there is somewhat of a categorical difference.
alex-g 13y ago
With receipts under $50k they could do a 990N, which is pretty much "what is your name?" and job done. (Their 2012 status report said they were spending $20-30k per year from a roughly $200k pot, with little attempt at raising more money for the time being.)
Amadou 13y ago
if it is actually the case that they have had no revenue and no costs, then filing a 990 is dead simple. If they had no revenue are they even required to file at all? I know that for personal income if you do not owe any additional tax than has already been collected then there is no requirement to file. Since they didn't get 501c3 status until 2012, the 990 doesn't seem appropriate except for this most recent year anyway.
- dnautics 13y ago
  >If they had no revenue are they even required to file at all? Yes. > Since they didn't get 501c3 status until 2012, the 990 doesn't seem appropriate except for this most recent year anyway. All nonprofits with an EIN need to file 990s even if you don't have 501(c)(3) status. Corporations are not individuals so there are different rules. The rules for registered nonprofits are stricter than for-profits - AND screwing them up can jeopardize attempts to get 501(c)(3) down the line, although typicially the IRS will be reasonable, if you make a handful of trivial mistakes here and there they won't kill you.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]