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What are your thoughts on the whole [Colony Collapse Disorder](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony_collapse_disorder http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony_collaps

by npinguy 13y ago

What are your thoughts on the whole [Colony Collapse Disorder](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony_collapse_disorder http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony_collapse_disorder)? Have you noticed an impact to your work? As a side question, do you think bees are treated ethically by the industrial farming complex? Does that question even apply to bees? Not coming in with preconceived judgements, I'm genuinely curious

moens 13y ago
As a beekeeper and an interested party: CCD: I believe that CCD is primarily caused by increased pesticide usage, glyphosate being the most common. Are bees treated ethically by big farms: I believe the better question is, "Is our philosophy of farming unethical for any participant?" If the answer is yes (for even one identifiable participant), then I find that it will be unethical for every participant. Answer: optimize for sustainability, not for production alone. Does the ethical treatment q relate to bees? Absolutely. See these movies... they are pretty one sided, but should be of interest: Queen of the Sun & More Than Honey
- jacquesm 13y ago
  Not sure why you were downvoted.
- specialist 13y ago
  ...then I find that it will be unethical for every participant. Well said. I like the cliche: If any of us are oppressed, then none of us are free.
- robbiep 13y ago
  Glyphosphate isn't a pesticide, it's a herbicide
  - kvb 13y ago
    I believe "pesticide" traditionally encompasses both herbicides and insecticides.
    - robbiep 13y ago
      It appears wikipedia agrees with you. In my experience (Grew up on a farm, live in the country) Pesticide is only applied to chemical insecticides, because they are rarely used; herbicides are most commonly used by name (because when you are telling someone ie. your neighbour what you are spraying the generic class is meaningless and they want to know whether spray drift will potentially damage their crops) And biologic treatments such as viruses which may be used on certain insects are called biologics.
Qworg 13y ago
CCD has impacted me - less than others as I only have a few hives. The numbers are astounding - 50-75% dead hives over winters are not uncommon. It puts an incredible amount of strain on the entire beekeeping system. I believe that CCD has multiple causes and dimensions. Bees are very specifically evolved, and much like any overtrained system, have weaknesses. A population of bees is always under stress - varrora destructor (a terrible kind of bee mite), various bacterial, viral, and fungal infections, other bees, predatory insects/animals, and more. Bees constantly fight to overcome these threats. Now, with the introduction and high usage of pesticides/herbicides, we've pushed them over the edge. More so than glyphosate (RoundUp), I think neonicotinoids are the most dangerous chemical. Active in low PPM, long lasting (decade+), and just dangerous enough to bees to make a CCD incident possible. Bees' direction finding is really incredible - imagine driving hundreds of miles away to a building with only the angle of the sun and a heading to work with. Neonicotinoids make bees "drunk" for lack of a better term - they cannot find their way back home. Only the oldest bees go out to forage. That way, if they get lost or sick, they're more likely to die and they've already achieved much of what the hive needs of them. If less foragers return, you have less food for the hive, so less new bees are made. Over time, as the bee population ages, you're left with less and less foragers, less and less bees, until you open your hive one day and find a handful of dead bees, a dead queen, and starved larvae. This is a classic depiction of CCD. As for the ethical treatment of bees - as insects, I don't believe they have an ethical or moral component. They are put under great stress every year to pollinate almonds - it is the greatest bee mixer/spring break in the world. It is also how we get all the bee diseases/pests spread quickly. I'm more concerned about the treatment and sales of honey. Supermarket honey is very suspect - overcooked, mixed, strained to remove any "impurities". Sometimes it isn't even real honey or has been relabelled to be local when it isn't.
- moens 13y ago
  "I'm more concerned about the treatment and sales of honey." Not sure I am more concerned about the treatment of honey than I am about the overuse of pesticides (ethical treatment of bees), but I do agree that honey as a product is important. IMO, one cannot do more to "help bees" than to buy your honey local, natural (non-augmented food sources), and raw ("unheated": less than 118degf, but only to 100degf if possible).

by npinguy 13y ago

moens 13y ago

As a beekeeper and an interested party: CCD: I believe that CCD is primarily caused by increased pesticide usage, glyphosate being the most common. Are bees treated ethically by big farms: I believe the better question is, "Is our philosophy of farming unethical for any participant?" If the answer is yes (for even one identifiable participant), then I find that it will be unethical for every participant. Answer: optimize for sustainability, not for production alone. Does the ethical treatment q relate to bees? Absolutely. See these movies... they are pretty one sided, but should be of interest: Queen of the Sun & More Than Honey

jacquesm 13y ago
Not sure why you were downvoted.
specialist 13y ago
...then I find that it will be unethical for every participant. Well said. I like the cliche: If any of us are oppressed, then none of us are free.
robbiep 13y ago
Glyphosphate isn't a pesticide, it's a herbicide
- kvb 13y ago
  I believe "pesticide" traditionally encompasses both herbicides and insecticides.
  - robbiep 13y ago
    It appears wikipedia agrees with you. In my experience (Grew up on a farm, live in the country) Pesticide is only applied to chemical insecticides, because they are rarely used; herbicides are most commonly used by name (because when you are telling someone ie. your neighbour what you are spraying the generic class is meaningless and they want to know whether spray drift will potentially damage their crops) And biologic treatments such as viruses which may be used on certain insects are called biologics.

Qworg 13y ago

CCD has impacted me - less than others as I only have a few hives. The numbers are astounding - 50-75% dead hives over winters are not uncommon. It puts an incredible amount of strain on the entire beekeeping system. I believe that CCD has multiple causes and dimensions. Bees are very specifically evolved, and much like any overtrained system, have weaknesses. A population of bees is always under stress - varrora destructor (a terrible kind of bee mite), various bacterial, viral, and fungal infections, other bees, predatory insects/animals, and more. Bees constantly fight to overcome these threats. Now, with the introduction and high usage of pesticides/herbicides, we've pushed them over the edge. More so than glyphosate (RoundUp), I think neonicotinoids are the most dangerous chemical. Active in low PPM, long lasting (decade+), and just dangerous enough to bees to make a CCD incident possible. Bees' direction finding is really incredible - imagine driving hundreds of miles away to a building with only the angle of the sun and a heading to work with. Neonicotinoids make bees "drunk" for lack of a better term - they cannot find their way back home. Only the oldest bees go out to forage. That way, if they get lost or sick, they're more likely to die and they've already achieved much of what the hive needs of them. If less foragers return, you have less food for the hive, so less new bees are made. Over time, as the bee population ages, you're left with less and less foragers, less and less bees, until you open your hive one day and find a handful of dead bees, a dead queen, and starved larvae. This is a classic depiction of CCD. As for the ethical treatment of bees - as insects, I don't believe they have an ethical or moral component. They are put under great stress every year to pollinate almonds - it is the greatest bee mixer/spring break in the world. It is also how we get all the bee diseases/pests spread quickly. I'm more concerned about the treatment and sales of honey. Supermarket honey is very suspect - overcooked, mixed, strained to remove any "impurities". Sometimes it isn't even real honey or has been relabelled to be local when it isn't.

moens 13y ago
"I'm more concerned about the treatment and sales of honey." Not sure I am more concerned about the treatment of honey than I am about the overuse of pesticides (ethical treatment of bees), but I do agree that honey as a product is important. IMO, one cannot do more to "help bees" than to buy your honey local, natural (non-augmented food sources), and raw ("unheated": less than 118degf, but only to 100degf if possible).