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While the headline is a bit over the top, I agree with the general sentiment. The idea that the government will infiltrate these groups, but limit themselves to

by pyre 13y ago

While the headline is a bit over the top, I agree with the general sentiment. The idea that the government will infiltrate these groups, but limit themselves to just influencing the discourse in positive, truthful ways, without creating dossiers on the parties involved seems fantasy to me.

hacker789 13y ago
How would you change the headline to make it more accurate?
- jlgreco 13y ago
  I am guessing his objection is that the title does not mention that the targets would be conspiracy theorists. That is a fairly reasonable objection but on the other hand, how many online discussion venues don't have discussions about conspiracies? HN sure as shit does, as does reddit, slashdot, facebook, 4chan, twitter, IRC, bodybuilding.com's forums...
  - pyre 13y ago
    The title is a truthful statement. The change I would make would be to call them "'ethical' pro-government shills," with the scare-quotes intentionally around the word ethical. The guy was promoting the idea that we would put these shills in place, but they would basically only be steering people away from false assumptions and towards the truth. While this might be a nice idea, it's more fantasy than reality.
andyl 13y ago
Hmm - that sounds just like something a paid government shill would say...
- pyre 13y ago
  It's ok. I'm just a paid government shill that's steering you towards the truth. Trust me. <sleazy smile/> The fantasy is not that this couldn't happen or is not happening. The fantasy is that if such a program were initiated that it would remain within the 'ethical' boundaries that he specified. It's like saying that if we create a national Internet filter to block known child porn URLs that the mechanisms to do this would be used only for blocking child porn. The reality is that people would be busting down the door to knock their favourite-thing-to-hate off of the Internet.
tonyarkles 13y ago
You lost me at "positive, truthful ways". :)
- pyre 13y ago
  I get that. You're lying about your identity to help influence people to know the truth. If you're already willing to lie about who you are, then you're already more willing to do things that might not be so ethical in the first place, which means you probably can't be trusted to limit yourself to only steering people towards the truth.

by pyre 13y ago

hacker789 13y ago

How would you change the headline to make it more accurate?

jlgreco 13y ago
I am guessing his objection is that the title does not mention that the targets would be conspiracy theorists. That is a fairly reasonable objection but on the other hand, how many online discussion venues don't have discussions about conspiracies? HN sure as shit does, as does reddit, slashdot, facebook, 4chan, twitter, IRC, bodybuilding.com's forums...
- pyre 13y ago
  The title is a truthful statement. The change I would make would be to call them "'ethical' pro-government shills," with the scare-quotes intentionally around the word ethical. The guy was promoting the idea that we would put these shills in place, but they would basically only be steering people away from false assumptions and towards the truth. While this might be a nice idea, it's more fantasy than reality.

andyl 13y ago

Hmm - that sounds just like something a paid government shill would say...

pyre 13y ago
It's ok. I'm just a paid government shill that's steering you towards the truth. Trust me. <sleazy smile/> The fantasy is not that this couldn't happen or is not happening. The fantasy is that if such a program were initiated that it would remain within the 'ethical' boundaries that he specified. It's like saying that if we create a national Internet filter to block known child porn URLs that the mechanisms to do this would be used only for blocking child porn. The reality is that people would be busting down the door to knock their favourite-thing-to-hate off of the Internet.

tonyarkles 13y ago

You lost me at "positive, truthful ways". :)

pyre 13y ago
I get that. You're lying about your identity to help influence people to know the truth. If you're already willing to lie about who you are, then you're already more willing to do things that might not be so ethical in the first place, which means you probably can't be trusted to limit yourself to only steering people towards the truth.