5 ms·

You've mentioned Windows 7 twice in this thread. By what measure do you consider it a failure? If anything, Windows 7 is the best thing released under Ballmer.

by sker 13y ago

astrodust 13y ago
Windows 7 is not a success. It's just a non-failure. The only reason people use it at all isn't because it's fantastic, but because it's incrementally better than Windows XP without all the garbage Vista foisted on the user. After having used it for an extended period of time, the only real improvements I've seen are in the explorer shell, which are minor at best, and the theme.
- wvenable 13y ago
  Windows 7 is just the finished version of Vista. All the big transitions that started in Vista (UAC, DWM, new driver models, etc) are there in Windows 7. If you go back and look at Vista now, you can see how half-baked it is -- a mix of Windows 7 UI and XP UI.
- mkautzm 13y ago
  Windows 7 is orders of magnitude easier to manage. A lot of the improvements under the hood the consumer didn't see or notice. One that they might have noticed is the ability for the OS to find proper drivers for pretty much any consumer device from a major manufacturer. Other than that, there are other features that put W7 was ahead of XP in terms of management ease.
  - astrodust 13y ago
    I've found it just as obnoxiously difficult to find and install drivers in Windows 7. They all seem to have their own proprietary installer, their own crappy control panel, their own quirky bugs and insane workarounds. The registry is still there and even more crammed with crap than ever. Uninstaller applications are still a necessity. Finding things in the control panel is both easier (search) and way harder than before (more tabs, more drop-downs, more everything). The simple mode is almost useless, which leaves you with the ridiculous "Advanced" mode. Drive letters? Still there. Task manager? Still essential. Programs menu? Still filled with nonsense injected there by the vendors. This doesn't even touch on the fact that the Windows software ecosystem is full of literal junk, programs that either overtly or covertly install adware, malware, or sneaky debris on your machine, and this includes major vendors like Oracle (Java) and Adobe (Flash). It takes discipline to keep your machine clean, everyone wants to set up shop. The only thing I'm happy about is that Windows 7 does have much better resilience against virus type programs and application level exploits than Windows XP ever did.
- ignostic 13y ago
  >"Windows 7 is not a success. It's just a non-failure." So last I heard there were 630 million licenses of Windows 7 sold. Even at OEM prices, that's 63 billion dollars of revenue. If that's not success, you're probably setting the bar too high. >"The only reason people use it at all isn't because it's fantastic, but because it's incrementally better than Windows XP without all the garbage Vista foisted on the user." That's a pretty broad brush you're using there. Really, that's the ONLY reason? And what's wrong with incrementally better? The iPhone has only been incrementally better since the first version, and that's even more true of the 4s to 5. The iPhone 5 is still a fantastic phone! Amount of change from prior versions is a poor measure of quality.
  - astrodust 13y ago
    Success would've been an uptick in PC sales, but this is not happening. Instead Microsoft is king of a shrinking market. A failure would've been a steep decline in Windows license sales. That they managed to not screw this up is not something they should be bragging about. With Windows 8 being very poorly received, this might happen yet. When people go out of their way to get an older version of your software, you know you've done something wrong. Look at the sales curve (http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2013/05/07/six-months-in-windows-8-is-selling-at-the-same-rate-that-windows-7-did/ http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2013/05/07/six-months-in-win...) and you'll see that Microsoft has a near literal cash cow. That curve tracks very closely with PC sales in general, following the usual upgrade cycles. The iPhone, and the software behind it, have been improving significantly with each annual iteration. In 2007 the iPhone did not exist. Now it's iOS7, Apple's "Windows 8" moment, which so far looks to be a hit. Microsoft should make a version of Windows specifically for enterprise on a slow release, long support cycle, and branch off a consumer one that's on a much more aggressive schedule.
- wehadfun 13y ago
  Windows 7 had "nepitutal" benefit from windows 95 and Microsoft Office. Ballmer could release a OS with no start menu, with a bunch of weird squares and it would sell

You've mentioned Windows 7 twice in this thread. By what measure do you consider it a failure? If anything, Windows 7 is the best thing released under Ballmer.

by sker 13y ago

You've mentioned Windows 7 twice in this thread. By what measure do you consider it a failure? If anything, Windows 7 is the best thing released under Ballmer.

astrodust 13y ago

Windows 7 is not a success. It's just a non-failure. The only reason people use it at all isn't because it's fantastic, but because it's incrementally better than Windows XP without all the garbage Vista foisted on the user. After having used it for an extended period of time, the only real improvements I've seen are in the explorer shell, which are minor at best, and the theme.

wvenable 13y ago
Windows 7 is just the finished version of Vista. All the big transitions that started in Vista (UAC, DWM, new driver models, etc) are there in Windows 7. If you go back and look at Vista now, you can see how half-baked it is -- a mix of Windows 7 UI and XP UI.
mkautzm 13y ago
Windows 7 is orders of magnitude easier to manage. A lot of the improvements under the hood the consumer didn't see or notice. One that they might have noticed is the ability for the OS to find proper drivers for pretty much any consumer device from a major manufacturer. Other than that, there are other features that put W7 was ahead of XP in terms of management ease.
- astrodust 13y ago
  I've found it just as obnoxiously difficult to find and install drivers in Windows 7. They all seem to have their own proprietary installer, their own crappy control panel, their own quirky bugs and insane workarounds. The registry is still there and even more crammed with crap than ever. Uninstaller applications are still a necessity. Finding things in the control panel is both easier (search) and way harder than before (more tabs, more drop-downs, more everything). The simple mode is almost useless, which leaves you with the ridiculous "Advanced" mode. Drive letters? Still there. Task manager? Still essential. Programs menu? Still filled with nonsense injected there by the vendors. This doesn't even touch on the fact that the Windows software ecosystem is full of literal junk, programs that either overtly or covertly install adware, malware, or sneaky debris on your machine, and this includes major vendors like Oracle (Java) and Adobe (Flash). It takes discipline to keep your machine clean, everyone wants to set up shop. The only thing I'm happy about is that Windows 7 does have much better resilience against virus type programs and application level exploits than Windows XP ever did.
ignostic 13y ago
>"Windows 7 is not a success. It's just a non-failure." So last I heard there were 630 million licenses of Windows 7 sold. Even at OEM prices, that's 63 billion dollars of revenue. If that's not success, you're probably setting the bar too high. >"The only reason people use it at all isn't because it's fantastic, but because it's incrementally better than Windows XP without all the garbage Vista foisted on the user." That's a pretty broad brush you're using there. Really, that's the ONLY reason? And what's wrong with incrementally better? The iPhone has only been incrementally better since the first version, and that's even more true of the 4s to 5. The iPhone 5 is still a fantastic phone! Amount of change from prior versions is a poor measure of quality.
- astrodust 13y ago
  Success would've been an uptick in PC sales, but this is not happening. Instead Microsoft is king of a shrinking market. A failure would've been a steep decline in Windows license sales. That they managed to not screw this up is not something they should be bragging about. With Windows 8 being very poorly received, this might happen yet. When people go out of their way to get an older version of your software, you know you've done something wrong. Look at the sales curve (http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2013/05/07/six-months-in-windows-8-is-selling-at-the-same-rate-that-windows-7-did/ http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2013/05/07/six-months-in-win...) and you'll see that Microsoft has a near literal cash cow. That curve tracks very closely with PC sales in general, following the usual upgrade cycles. The iPhone, and the software behind it, have been improving significantly with each annual iteration. In 2007 the iPhone did not exist. Now it's iOS7, Apple's "Windows 8" moment, which so far looks to be a hit. Microsoft should make a version of Windows specifically for enterprise on a slow release, long support cycle, and branch off a consumer one that's on a much more aggressive schedule.
wehadfun 13y ago
Windows 7 had "nepitutal" benefit from windows 95 and Microsoft Office. Ballmer could release a OS with no start menu, with a bunch of weird squares and it would sell