5 ms·
I absolutely love python and I'm using it daily but Django seems so....outdated?! Biggest web framework needs someone to raise funding via kickstarter to build
by ciokan 13y ago
I absolutely love python and I'm using it daily but Django seems so....outdated?! Biggest web framework needs someone to raise funding via kickstarter to build a schema migration?
2013 and you still can't build a REST application without installing 3rd party code? I mean c'moon there's angularjs, emberjs, knockout, extjs etc etc etc out for years don't you see a light at the end of the tunnel or you're the type of team that build more tunnel?
Sorry to say but news like this just make me sad. Still happy I chose flask + sqlalchemy for my website. Django is somewhere in 2004-2005 still. I lose the admin of course but I hate general things anyway (one size fits all type of thing).
- oinksoft 13y agoAnd the rest of the world who see Django as an amazing RAD tool with a huge app ecosystem keep plugging along ... don't get me wrong, I'm a huge advocate frameworks like AngularJS, but that approach is just not suitable for most meat-and-potatoes public-facing web applications.
- wbond 13y agoI recently built (more or less) a REST API and a Backbone front-end using Python. Why would I want to use Django to do so when there are so many other (more appropriate) options? Does Django really need to be a framework that does everything? I started before Flask supported Python 3, so I used bottle, psycopg2 and a bunch of other python packages. Knowing what I was interested in accomplishing, I was pretty easily able to stitch together these libraries to create a solid, to-the-point codebase. Having spent a bunch of time working on various backbone-heavy apps with Rails I don't have much interest in using a big, full-stack, opinionated framework to act as a REST API. There is so much overhead and so many opinions to work against.
- ciokan 13y agoI especially avoided the word "rails". You know why
- taude 13y agoCouldn't agree more, especially when you're basically speaking JSON with some authentication/authorization. I even question myself when using Flask-Restful vs just making my views return straight up JSON....but...that's a different discussion.
- Joeboy 13y ago> 2013 and you still can't build a REST application without installing 3rd party code? Of course you can. There are some third party apps that might save some time.
- ciokan 13y agorick-rolling? I know it's not hard to plug-in a module. It's the fact that you have to turn for support to yet another company/person if django upgrades it's codebase breaking things. I'm playing right now with meteorjs and I know what it means to wait months for one thing to be fixed and, when it is fixed, wait a few more months for the plugins to catch-up.
- oinksoft 13y agoIt's mind-boggling that somebody would criticize the use of third-party libraries for a REST interface shortly after advocating an approach based on gluing together third-party libraries.
- ciokan 13y agoNot advocating it at all. Read again please.
- oinksoft 13y agoStill happy I chose flask + sqlalchemy for my website. OK ...
- ciokan 13y agoOver Django? Any day! I'm not an advocate of that. It's just the alternative I had at that time (which doesn't mean I advocate it). I'm still watching Django very closely and, as I said, fundraising for a schema migration makes me sad.
- 13y ago
- ergusto 13y agoI'm struggling to understand why you're saying you can't build a REST api with Django out of the box. It's easy to serialise python data to pretty much any format. Why do you need Django to do any of that for you? Things like RESTapi add extra features, not core REST functionality.
- simonw 13y agoHow does Flask + SQLAlchemy make it easier to build a REST interface than out-of-the-box Django?
- taude 13y agoBecause the Django ORM is so limiting in so many aspects? It's great if your queries are simple...
- ubernostrum 13y agoI think the question was more along the lines of what bundled module or functionality in Flask + SQLAlchemy specifically and uniquely makes REST interfaces easy to build. Because I know of no such thing -- it's still very much roll-your-own or use a third-party library.
- simonw 13y agoDo you have any examples of queries you've found difficult to express using the Django ORM? I'm geniuiny interested in hearing - I've been using it for 5+ years now and I rarely find the need to step outside it. I frequently write queries that do joins across 6 or more tables with count aggregations in single lines of Python code with it.
- taude 13y agoI don't with me. A common workflow ended up being for me was write the complex query in SQL (because it wasn't obvious to get going in the ORM), and then spend a long time reverse engineer it to get it to work in the Django ORM. Lots of joins, sub-selects, ordering, grabbing the latest single record from time sorted in the middle, etc. In the end, I had to think about how to use the ORM, and then I still needed to know the SQL for optimizations...
- njharman 13y ago> there's angularjs, emberjs, knockout, extjs etc etc etc That answers your complaint. There are many choices, no clear best choice. Frameworks need to balance being not too opinionated (making choices for you) and being convienent/batteries included. South, over time, became the obvious, best choice. When a REST plugin gets to same level it probably will be added. In meantime, doing pip install REST plugin of your choice and adding a single line to installed apps is easy enough even an incompetent developer can do it.
- a_c_s 13y agoI built a RESTful API without installing 3rd party code in Django, don't know why you think this can't be done.
- metaphorm 13y agowhat's wrong with using plugins to extend functionality? these aren't dinky/crappy/unreliable side projects we're talking about. these are solidly engineered, production ready plugins that are used by hundreds or even thousands of projects.