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Slightly patronising there - however much you compare pollution and energy use over lifetime, the absolute worst thing you can do for the environment is buy a n

Slightly patronising there - however much you compare pollution and energy use over lifetime, the absolute worst thing you can do for the environment is buy a new car. It's far better to run an old one into the ground. You don't even need to go looking for the production "costs" of the vehicle. Just think of the distance that all the different parts of your new vehicle have travelled before they're put together... and then shipped to your country.

morpher 13y ago
Do you have a source that gives estimates of carbon output from vehicle shipping? I'm wondering roughly how many fumey-old-bug miles correspond to pre-owner new-car transport.
- lotsofcows 13y ago
  I remember a New Scientist article focusing specifically on the shipping aspect but my google-fu has let me down. This has some interesting references: http://www.salon.com/2008/04/21/ask_pablo_cars/ http://www.salon.com/2008/04/21/ask_pablo_cars/
- fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
  Bob Pease used to make some pretty convincing arguments for driving his old beetle (vs buying a newer car). Actually, the more I think about it, Bob Pease might still make those arguments if he were alive today, despite the fact that he died in a crash in a 1969 Beetle, that might[1] have been survivable in a newer car. http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/readerschoice/4368147/Analog-engineering-legend-Bob-Pease-killed-in-car-crash http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/readerschoice/4368147/A... [1] Past personal experience: Many of the elderly people I have seen go through car crashes in which the airbag deploys experience injuries from the airbag that often lead to their death or convalescence. Of course, they would have fared no better without the airbag.
ars 13y ago
From an energy point of view, maybe. But from a pollution point of view not even close. PS. Shipping is not really that expensive in terms of energy.
samatman 13y ago
While true, the average weight of a car is 4,000 pounds, of which the engine is 600, all of which is recyclable steel. The best of both worlds is to ride an old chassis with a modern/freshly rebuilt engine. Both frugal and low pollution. There's no reason to run the chassis into the ground using an engine that's burning oil and choking on the gas.
- toomuchtodo 13y ago
  I wish car engines were modular, where it was enclosed within a frame and only had 1-2 connection points for power/fuel. That way, you could swap the engine in 1-2 hours just by hoisting the old engine out and dropping the new engine in with a lift.
  - sliverstorm 13y ago
    It was like that sixty years ago, but we sacrificed a lot of that for compactness and increased sophistication of the engine management systems (which wildly increase reliability, longevity, fuel economy, and power)
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  The best of both worlds Partially agree! Modern engines, or a properly rebuilt & maintained engine, can do great things for an older chassis. That said, a rolling chassis can and will wear out. There comes a time where replacing all the failing parts is a losing proposition both for you and Earth.
sgustard 13y ago
But the new car is already here, sitting on a nearby lot, not being driven while I drive my clunker around. Your argument may apply to a future reduction of car shipments if enough people follow your advice, but that is hard to count on.
- dredmorbius 13y ago
  False through incomplete causality. Your purchase of that already-extant vehicle will trigger production of another in today's very tightly-managed-inventory world. Increasingly, even automobiles are made to order (c.f.: Tesla).

morpher 13y ago

Do you have a source that gives estimates of carbon output from vehicle shipping? I'm wondering roughly how many fumey-old-bug miles correspond to pre-owner new-car transport.

lotsofcows 13y ago
I remember a New Scientist article focusing specifically on the shipping aspect but my google-fu has let me down. This has some interesting references: http://www.salon.com/2008/04/21/ask_pablo_cars/ http://www.salon.com/2008/04/21/ask_pablo_cars/
fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
Bob Pease used to make some pretty convincing arguments for driving his old beetle (vs buying a newer car). Actually, the more I think about it, Bob Pease might still make those arguments if he were alive today, despite the fact that he died in a crash in a 1969 Beetle, that might[1] have been survivable in a newer car. http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/readerschoice/4368147/Analog-engineering-legend-Bob-Pease-killed-in-car-crash http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/readerschoice/4368147/A... [1] Past personal experience: Many of the elderly people I have seen go through car crashes in which the airbag deploys experience injuries from the airbag that often lead to their death or convalescence. Of course, they would have fared no better without the airbag.

ars 13y ago

From an energy point of view, maybe. But from a pollution point of view not even close. PS. Shipping is not really that expensive in terms of energy.

samatman 13y ago

While true, the average weight of a car is 4,000 pounds, of which the engine is 600, all of which is recyclable steel. The best of both worlds is to ride an old chassis with a modern/freshly rebuilt engine. Both frugal and low pollution. There's no reason to run the chassis into the ground using an engine that's burning oil and choking on the gas.

toomuchtodo 13y ago
I wish car engines were modular, where it was enclosed within a frame and only had 1-2 connection points for power/fuel. That way, you could swap the engine in 1-2 hours just by hoisting the old engine out and dropping the new engine in with a lift.
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  It was like that sixty years ago, but we sacrificed a lot of that for compactness and increased sophistication of the engine management systems (which wildly increase reliability, longevity, fuel economy, and power)
sliverstorm 13y ago
The best of both worlds Partially agree! Modern engines, or a properly rebuilt & maintained engine, can do great things for an older chassis. That said, a rolling chassis can and will wear out. There comes a time where replacing all the failing parts is a losing proposition both for you and Earth.

sgustard 13y ago

But the new car is already here, sitting on a nearby lot, not being driven while I drive my clunker around. Your argument may apply to a future reduction of car shipments if enough people follow your advice, but that is hard to count on.

dredmorbius 13y ago
False through incomplete causality. Your purchase of that already-extant vehicle will trigger production of another in today's very tightly-managed-inventory world. Increasingly, even automobiles are made to order (c.f.: Tesla).