4 ms·

"It’s been a bit of a slow realization for me, but I don’t actually want to be safe, I’d rather be free and unsafe." This, I believe, is the key tension in dem

"It’s been a bit of a slow realization for me, but I don’t actually want to be safe, I’d rather be free and unsafe." This, I believe, is the key tension in democracies. A majority of the constituents can be scared into compromises for "their security", not fully understanding what they are really giving up. A large number would rather "feel safe" than "feel free".

lutusp 13y ago
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin
- sp332 13y ago
  That's a much easier quote to throw around than "Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_Free_or_Die http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_Free_or_Die or maybe "What is to be done? The answer is easy. It has always been easy. Stop saying 'not in my name' and start saying 'over my dead body'. That's what we did. It works. Do it." http://wlcentral.org/node/2818 http://wlcentral.org/node/2818
oskarth 13y ago
It's also a weak form of stating the difference between the two possibilities. In practice, "safe" often means "safe" and a slight possibility of being very unsafe (say, by being labelled a terrorist). Not to mention the (slight? inevitable?) possibility of future major abuse a la <pick-your-own-favourite-despot>.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
Datsundere 13y ago
I disagree with that statement. It's possible that he hasn't lost someone close in any kind of traumatic event that makes him so optimistic about it. Human nature compels people to want revenge or hatred towards say the same (religious) groups that the "terrorists" were from. This is very evident post 9/11. People hated muslims, destroyed their properties and discriminated them. I think it's not time to be so care free. We don't even understand the universe yet. Of course I don't want survellience, but there has to be a requirement for saftey, and yes if that means putting bad people behind bars and make society advance faster so that we can colonize other planets, and understand how everything works better. There needs to be more scientists and engineers not more thieves.
- Datsundere 13y ago
  of course, hide and downvote without giving an argument. This is not different from the freedom you want oh wait
- unionpivo 13y ago
  Nobody has problem with putting bad guys into prisons. All civilized societies do this. What I/we have a problem with is that everybody is treated as guilty, spied on etc. This becomes even bigger problem when you consider that most governments consider anyone that is not with them to be their enemy. So in essence If you don't 100% agree and support government you are an enemy and then anything goes (spying, dronestrikes, ...). Additionally I am not American, I don't even get a vote, but i am beeing spied on, and If I make to much fuzz them might decide to drone me. (As far as I know they haven't killed any EU citizens, but I doubt they would think twice). They also keep expanding who they go after, first it was just the Al Kaida and other terrorist, now its pretty much anyone USA doesn't like. So to put it bluntly I as a EU citizen am far more scared of USA than Al Kaida.
  - Datsundere 13y ago
    Are you serious? Despite the 1% spending to aid, US gives more aid to developing countries more than any other nation. You're scared because if you make a fuzz they'll drone you? People that didn't like obama talked bad(even death) about him when he first became the president, they're still alive. I don't support what the NSA is doing by spying on everyone but detaining someone of probable cause is necessary for saftey measures. According to your view, US should've nuked North Korea already by now.

lutusp 13y ago

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

sp332 13y ago
That's a much easier quote to throw around than "Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_Free_or_Die http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_Free_or_Die or maybe "What is to be done? The answer is easy. It has always been easy. Stop saying 'not in my name' and start saying 'over my dead body'. That's what we did. It works. Do it." http://wlcentral.org/node/2818 http://wlcentral.org/node/2818

oskarth 13y ago

It's also a weak form of stating the difference between the two possibilities. In practice, "safe" often means "safe" and a slight possibility of being very unsafe (say, by being labelled a terrorist). Not to mention the (slight? inevitable?) possibility of future major abuse a la <pick-your-own-favourite-despot>.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

Datsundere 13y ago

I disagree with that statement. It's possible that he hasn't lost someone close in any kind of traumatic event that makes him so optimistic about it. Human nature compels people to want revenge or hatred towards say the same (religious) groups that the "terrorists" were from. This is very evident post 9/11. People hated muslims, destroyed their properties and discriminated them. I think it's not time to be so care free. We don't even understand the universe yet. Of course I don't want survellience, but there has to be a requirement for saftey, and yes if that means putting bad people behind bars and make society advance faster so that we can colonize other planets, and understand how everything works better. There needs to be more scientists and engineers not more thieves.

Datsundere 13y ago
of course, hide and downvote without giving an argument. This is not different from the freedom you want oh wait
unionpivo 13y ago
Nobody has problem with putting bad guys into prisons. All civilized societies do this. What I/we have a problem with is that everybody is treated as guilty, spied on etc. This becomes even bigger problem when you consider that most governments consider anyone that is not with them to be their enemy. So in essence If you don't 100% agree and support government you are an enemy and then anything goes (spying, dronestrikes, ...). Additionally I am not American, I don't even get a vote, but i am beeing spied on, and If I make to much fuzz them might decide to drone me. (As far as I know they haven't killed any EU citizens, but I doubt they would think twice). They also keep expanding who they go after, first it was just the Al Kaida and other terrorist, now its pretty much anyone USA doesn't like. So to put it bluntly I as a EU citizen am far more scared of USA than Al Kaida.
- Datsundere 13y ago
  Are you serious? Despite the 1% spending to aid, US gives more aid to developing countries more than any other nation. You're scared because if you make a fuzz they'll drone you? People that didn't like obama talked bad(even death) about him when he first became the president, they're still alive. I don't support what the NSA is doing by spying on everyone but detaining someone of probable cause is necessary for saftey measures. According to your view, US should've nuked North Korea already by now.