4 ms·

This thing about hastily stating how much you love your country seems bizarre. I don't know if it's a uniquely American thing but to British ears it always seem

This thing about hastily stating how much you love your country seems bizarre. I don't know if it's a uniquely American thing but to British ears it always seems odd. It seems like a constant struggle to reassure patriotism in a way that suggests that the 'battle' for liberty and freedom of expression is lost, in the same way that self-censorship does (is it a McCarthyist hang-over?).

jacquesm 13y ago
It may simply be to find a justification for ones actions which when not seen through some kind of rosy lens might cause one to self-reflect and ask pointed questions.
mattezell 13y ago
This is just my opinion - purely conjecture based on my own experiences.. As someone who has done the very thing that you are questioning, I know that the following have somewhat been a motivation for me... It is a very common tactic in interpersonal political debate/discussion in the U.S. for one side to discredit another's opinion by quickly painting their sentiments as "anti-American" or "anti-patriotic" - I've generally seen this tactic put into play by our right-leaning conservatives. I think that the 'disclaimer' of stating that you are in fact a patriot is often merely an attempt to derail the oft-used "SEE - YOU'RE A FREAKING LIBERAL COMMUNIST WHO HATES PUPPIES, KITTENS AND AMERICA! YOUR OPINIONS ARE NOW INVALID!" As sad as it is to say, political debates in the U.S. are rarely about what's ultimately right or wrong... It's a contest and it's about winning... Not for everyone, mind you - I'd far rather lose a debate than defend an incorrect point - but for a lot of people, it's about yelling louder and forcing the other to concede. Case in point.. Years ago, I worked in a field that exposed me to A LOT of military - active and retired... In a "friendly" discussion regarding socialized healthcare with a person I admired and respected, I stated that I was 'ok with paying more taxes if it helped fix our healthcare system'. He quickly became heated, immediately turned aggressive - yelling something to the effect of "YOU WOULD STEAL MY MONEY AND GIVE IT TO A [racial derogatory term omitted?!"... He then proceeded to pull his knife off his belt and wave it towards me in a threatening manner while continuing to rant about me being a Nazi, before stabbing the knife into a counter and walking off in a huff as he continued to cuss me out... We are an interesting and odd mix here in the states...
- brandonbloom 13y ago
  > stating that you are in fact a patriot is often merely an attempt to derail the oft-used ... I actually quite welcome that poor tactic because it enables me to me to say: "No. Really, I have absolutely no loyalty to America or any other country for that matter. I'm loyal to humanity, and you should be too."
  - MacsHeadroom 13y ago
    We've got a "T" word over here!
  - MacsHeadroom 13y ago
    We've got a "T" word over here!
  - mattezell 13y ago
    I think that you've misunderstood me. Generally, the "I'm a patriot" line is utilized by the left/liberal - who is usually the more rights, humanitarian, privacy, social healthcare minded of our two parties.. It's used to preemptively dismantle a favored attack employed by "the right" - who are our conservatives, which favor fewer social services, lower taxes, security being valued over liberty/freedoms (generally, they supported the Patriot Act and similar such things)... Consider this contrived example, as it clearly isn't evident from my previous anecdote... Liberal: "It's our duty to ensure we don't do damage to human rights for a little temporary security via overreaching surveillance programs..." Conservative: "You're a freaking liberal nutjob who would bring harm to America! YOU LOSE!" Then... Liberal: "I am a patriot and love 'Merica, but I feel that it's our duty to ensure we don't do damage to human rights for a little temporary security via overreaching surveillance programs..." Conservative: "Ah. Well.. 'A patriot', you say? I can't argue with that.. [more 'civil' discussion may ensue]" This has just been my experience.. The general 'caricatures' of our two main political mindsets could be summarized as: Conservative - Religion over Education, Christian Government, Guns, Moral Laws, Military, Exclusionary ("If you don't like it, you can get the hell out of MY country!") Liberal - Education over Religion, Separation of Church and state, More Restrictive Gun Laws, Support of Social Services (healthcare), Higher Taxes, Diplomacy over Military Aggression, Inclusionary ("While I may not see eye to eye with you, there is room here for us all... That's what makes America great - we don't have to be of the same faith or belief, yet we can both call this home...") Again, these are the far ends of the spectrum.. These are stereotypes.. These are broad generalizations made for the purpose of demonstration - I don't mean to offend anyone who identifies with either side. One final bit, using your rebuttal: Person 1: "No. Really, I have absolutely no loyalty to America or any other country for that matter. I'm loyal to humanity, and you should be too." Person 2: [Whips out knife and waves at you aggressively] "You're a communist puppy hating hippy! You lose! Get out of my country!"
adammil 13y ago
People do this when they feel stress and internal conflict for bending their own morals to do what they think might be best for their country overall. Sort of like the things you might do to save your own kid, even if immoral, but finding some comfort reminding yourself it's ultimately for a good cause. I'm not saying this is the right thing to do, only pointing it out.
omonra 13y ago
Bear in mind, Britain has been in steady decline for about 100 years now (in terms of its geopolitical standing). So there isn't much in store for being patriotic. In Russia patriotism was big during the Soviet years, then dived during the breakup of USSR and has been making a comeback now. So basically patriotism tends to be there when people actually have something (or are made) to feel good about - a positive vector, if you will.

jacquesm 13y ago

It may simply be to find a justification for ones actions which when not seen through some kind of rosy lens might cause one to self-reflect and ask pointed questions.

mattezell 13y ago

This is just my opinion - purely conjecture based on my own experiences.. As someone who has done the very thing that you are questioning, I know that the following have somewhat been a motivation for me... It is a very common tactic in interpersonal political debate/discussion in the U.S. for one side to discredit another's opinion by quickly painting their sentiments as "anti-American" or "anti-patriotic" - I've generally seen this tactic put into play by our right-leaning conservatives. I think that the 'disclaimer' of stating that you are in fact a patriot is often merely an attempt to derail the oft-used "SEE - YOU'RE A FREAKING LIBERAL COMMUNIST WHO HATES PUPPIES, KITTENS AND AMERICA! YOUR OPINIONS ARE NOW INVALID!" As sad as it is to say, political debates in the U.S. are rarely about what's ultimately right or wrong... It's a contest and it's about winning... Not for everyone, mind you - I'd far rather lose a debate than defend an incorrect point - but for a lot of people, it's about yelling louder and forcing the other to concede. Case in point.. Years ago, I worked in a field that exposed me to A LOT of military - active and retired... In a "friendly" discussion regarding socialized healthcare with a person I admired and respected, I stated that I was 'ok with paying more taxes if it helped fix our healthcare system'. He quickly became heated, immediately turned aggressive - yelling something to the effect of "YOU WOULD STEAL MY MONEY AND GIVE IT TO A [racial derogatory term omitted?!"... He then proceeded to pull his knife off his belt and wave it towards me in a threatening manner while continuing to rant about me being a Nazi, before stabbing the knife into a counter and walking off in a huff as he continued to cuss me out... We are an interesting and odd mix here in the states...

brandonbloom 13y ago
> stating that you are in fact a patriot is often merely an attempt to derail the oft-used ... I actually quite welcome that poor tactic because it enables me to me to say: "No. Really, I have absolutely no loyalty to America or any other country for that matter. I'm loyal to humanity, and you should be too."
- MacsHeadroom 13y ago
  We've got a "T" word over here!
- MacsHeadroom 13y ago
  We've got a "T" word over here!
- mattezell 13y ago
  I think that you've misunderstood me. Generally, the "I'm a patriot" line is utilized by the left/liberal - who is usually the more rights, humanitarian, privacy, social healthcare minded of our two parties.. It's used to preemptively dismantle a favored attack employed by "the right" - who are our conservatives, which favor fewer social services, lower taxes, security being valued over liberty/freedoms (generally, they supported the Patriot Act and similar such things)... Consider this contrived example, as it clearly isn't evident from my previous anecdote... Liberal: "It's our duty to ensure we don't do damage to human rights for a little temporary security via overreaching surveillance programs..." Conservative: "You're a freaking liberal nutjob who would bring harm to America! YOU LOSE!" Then... Liberal: "I am a patriot and love 'Merica, but I feel that it's our duty to ensure we don't do damage to human rights for a little temporary security via overreaching surveillance programs..." Conservative: "Ah. Well.. 'A patriot', you say? I can't argue with that.. [more 'civil' discussion may ensue]" This has just been my experience.. The general 'caricatures' of our two main political mindsets could be summarized as: Conservative - Religion over Education, Christian Government, Guns, Moral Laws, Military, Exclusionary ("If you don't like it, you can get the hell out of MY country!") Liberal - Education over Religion, Separation of Church and state, More Restrictive Gun Laws, Support of Social Services (healthcare), Higher Taxes, Diplomacy over Military Aggression, Inclusionary ("While I may not see eye to eye with you, there is room here for us all... That's what makes America great - we don't have to be of the same faith or belief, yet we can both call this home...") Again, these are the far ends of the spectrum.. These are stereotypes.. These are broad generalizations made for the purpose of demonstration - I don't mean to offend anyone who identifies with either side. One final bit, using your rebuttal: Person 1: "No. Really, I have absolutely no loyalty to America or any other country for that matter. I'm loyal to humanity, and you should be too." Person 2: [Whips out knife and waves at you aggressively] "You're a communist puppy hating hippy! You lose! Get out of my country!"

adammil 13y ago

People do this when they feel stress and internal conflict for bending their own morals to do what they think might be best for their country overall. Sort of like the things you might do to save your own kid, even if immoral, but finding some comfort reminding yourself it's ultimately for a good cause. I'm not saying this is the right thing to do, only pointing it out.

omonra 13y ago

Bear in mind, Britain has been in steady decline for about 100 years now (in terms of its geopolitical standing). So there isn't much in store for being patriotic. In Russia patriotism was big during the Soviet years, then dived during the breakup of USSR and has been making a comeback now. So basically patriotism tends to be there when people actually have something (or are made) to feel good about - a positive vector, if you will.