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That thought is terrifying. I was afraid I was going to be put on the no-fly list afterwards and would have to travel back to NYC by train (a four-day trip).

That thought is terrifying. I was afraid I was going to be put on the no-fly list afterwards and would have to travel back to NYC by train (a four-day trip). Even before this experience I used to avoid flying in favor of taking the train. I don't know what I'd do if the TSA became commonplace at train stations.

jrockway 13y ago
Take the bus? Drive?
- RyanMcGreal 13y ago
  Please stop. Your comments here are glib, contemptuous and entirely unhelpful.
  - hyperventilator 13y ago
    Stallman has said as much. But if he said the US are Nazis that would be helpful, right?
  - jrockway 13y ago
    Just because I'm not hysterical about the TSA doesn't mean I can't comment here. When you travel by air, you are cramming yourself into a small metal tube with 300 other people. The other 299 people want everyone there to be checked for weapons, so the government does this. If you want to be able to travel without being screened, there are tons of options available to you. But the reality is, you have no right in the US to travel, and the government can set whatever standards they want for public spaces. There are plenty of options available for traveling without being screened. They cost more than the mainstream ones. (Buy your own plane and see how many TSA checkpoints you go through.) But just because something is expensive doesn't mean that you are being deprived by the government of some right. If you want to fight the TSA, shouting "police state" just makes you look stupid. You should figure out how to examine the effectiveness of the TSA numerically, and explain that to your elected representatives. Has the TSA slowed the growth of the air travel industry? Are there racist patterns in the TSA's profiling? If you can prove something with data, people will listen. But whining about the end of the world on a website nobody reads isn't going to solve any problems. It just makes you look like an out-of-touch anti-authoritarian teenager. Look: I really believe that you can get around the TSA and that it isn't a police state. This is not the Holocaust. This is not the end of the world. It's just an inconvenience you have to pay to get a $200 round-the-world flight.
    - anu_gupta 13y ago
      Genuinely hope you get hellbanned for this. If the HN moderators apply the same standards to you as they do to everyone else you should be.
      - jessaustin 13y ago
        What, because of the cursing? [EDIT: which has now been edited out; too bad, I always appreciate a sincere "Fuck you!"] Let's not be censorious. I can think of some hellbanned who didn't obviously deserve it, but most of the ones I've seen did obviously deserve it. Are you seriously going to argue that jrockway is as bad as the guy who posts all his personal revelations from the Lord? [EDIT: I'm talking about the richly-deserving-of-his-hellban "losethos": that guy's ramblings are always worth a drag of the trackball.] And like jrockway said, he is somehow on the leader board. That probably ought to mean something.
        mindcrime 13y ago
        I'm not going to jump on the "hellban jrockway" bandwagon, but I will say that I don't see any reason that being on the leaderboard should net anyone special treatment. The "board" shows history... what you did in the past doesn't change the effect or merit of your current behavior. By analogy - should someone automatically be pardoned for a crime they commit today (let's go extreme and say murder), because they had displayed good behavior in the past? All of this said, I am a bit surprised by some of jrockway's comments in this thread, given his posting history. Almost enough to wonder if someone else has taken control of his account.
        anu_gupta 13y ago
        The fact that he's on the leaderboard means precisely nothing except to indicate he's on the leaderboard. Plenty of other people have been banned for saying "Fuck you" on here, and it's interesting that jrockway silently edited his comment to remove his swearing at someone else on here, as well as removing his invitation to check that he's a huge karma accumulator - which he seems to think actually means something. Anyway, I"m not a mod, just someone who's a bit tired of one set of people being treated differently.
- amirmc 13y ago
  And when the TSA is at all bus stations and gates access to roads? Do you walk? Logic like this means you essentially hide from the problem until there's nowhere left. What happens then?
  - jrockway 13y ago
    Doesn't this mean we shouldn't have any laws, because one day the laws could be used to imprison everyone and use their internal organs to produce email spam? The point is, I think we still have travel alternatives and legal protections from abuse. The federal government only has the authority to affect travel between states, not within a single state. If the TSA starts interfering with movement in a single state (like on the NYC subway system), we'll see pushback from the state and local governments.
    - Amadou 13y ago
      If the TSA starts interfering with movement in a single state (like on the NYC subway system), we'll see pushback from the state and local governments. Nope, in fact NYC welcomed the Terrorists' Surrogate Army invasion of the subway. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Juvdi2TdeXY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Juvdi2TdeXY
      - deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
    - dragonwriter 13y ago
      > If the TSA starts interfering with movement in a single state You mean, if the TSA starts screening (and, thus, assuming the power to reject) passengers for intrastate air travel, like they have been since day one of TSA operations?
- jacalata 13y ago
  You must be from Hawaii.
- mason240 13y ago
  Instead of forcing others to waste their time and money to suit your irrational need for a security theatre, why don't spend your own time and money moving somewhere else with lots of security - like North Korea.
- cenhyperion 13y ago
  Have you driven near the border? Driving through west Texas I was met by stop and go traffic for 5 miles. Middle of the desert. I kept driving and realized border patrol had blocked the interstate and was diverting traffic through a checkpoint. Hundreds of cameras and drug dogs everywhere. I drove up and the agent asked me if I'm a US citizen. Then I was free to go. It's not that simple. It's very very hard to travel if the government doesn't want you to.
  - blahedo 13y ago
    > had blocked the interstate There's a permanent roadblock across northbound lanes of interstates in New Mexico (and, I think, Arizona), and across many of the smaller roads in southern Arizona (and, presumably, New Mexico). > if I'm a US citizen. Then I was free to go. It also helps to be white, fwiw.
  - acdha 13y ago
    Try driving from San Diego to Los Angeles: there are permanent checkpoints a solid hour's drive from the border — and quite a few non-white residents complain about getting unpleasant levels of attention.
- sspiff 13y ago
  There's a poem that describes this behaviour: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came…
- projectramo 13y ago
  Across the country for a 7 day event? Seems extreme.
- mpyne 13y ago
  While I agree with the idea that there needs to be some type of security screening for aircraft, I don't think it necessarily follows that we should tell people to either accept episodes like this one or take alternate transportation. With AQAP's bomb-making experts (who can make bombs with no metal parts whatsoever now) I can see why they need to make super-duper sure that a hit for explosive material is absolutely a false positive. But that doesn't explain the rude treatment, the confiscation of gear, the refusal to provide water, or having 5 different government agencies (and JetBlue) all gang up on him. There has to be a more "public serving" way to handle the necessary task of public safety.
pessimizer 13y ago
I haven't flown since shortly after you had to take off your shoes to get through security, taking Amtrak instead, and I've only ever even seen two people searched by TSA. You barely even see them, and if you do, they're usually sitting around looking bored. I suspect that they only bother to do the random searches if they've gotten some specific alert or warning. Many, many trips between Chicago and SF, Portland, and Texas, or rather, California Zephyr, Empire Builder, Texas Eagle, and Spirit of New Orleans etc. Haven't had any need to go through Bloombergville, though so ymmv.
- mikeash 13y ago
  They're rare... for now. The trend is solidly up, though.
- ripter 13y ago
  I have a few friends/coworkers that almost always get searched. They all share some things in common, like their skin color.
- model-m 13y ago
  A terrorist would have to put a single bomb on a single train to drastically change things. The TSA would then step in and do all the heavy lifting for them, creating terror and removing freedom.
aet 13y ago
Yes, I suppose to some extent. Is the thought of getting blown up terrifying? Is there some trade-off at work here? Where is the line?
keithnoizu 13y ago
Yes, I have the bad luck of not being white also. I've gone through secondary screening a few times although luckily never anything like this and I've never setup the bomb alarms. The double clinch is that we're all paying a lot of money to keep this program going that just slows us down during our travels with out actually increasing security in any meaningful way. It's just a secret form of welfare as far as I'm compared. Making up busy work for a bunch of people to do to make people feel more secure, falsely, and boost employment numbers.

jrockway 13y ago

Take the bus? Drive?

RyanMcGreal 13y ago
Please stop. Your comments here are glib, contemptuous and entirely unhelpful.
- hyperventilator 13y ago
  Stallman has said as much. But if he said the US are Nazis that would be helpful, right?
- jrockway 13y ago
  Just because I'm not hysterical about the TSA doesn't mean I can't comment here. When you travel by air, you are cramming yourself into a small metal tube with 300 other people. The other 299 people want everyone there to be checked for weapons, so the government does this. If you want to be able to travel without being screened, there are tons of options available to you. But the reality is, you have no right in the US to travel, and the government can set whatever standards they want for public spaces. There are plenty of options available for traveling without being screened. They cost more than the mainstream ones. (Buy your own plane and see how many TSA checkpoints you go through.) But just because something is expensive doesn't mean that you are being deprived by the government of some right. If you want to fight the TSA, shouting "police state" just makes you look stupid. You should figure out how to examine the effectiveness of the TSA numerically, and explain that to your elected representatives. Has the TSA slowed the growth of the air travel industry? Are there racist patterns in the TSA's profiling? If you can prove something with data, people will listen. But whining about the end of the world on a website nobody reads isn't going to solve any problems. It just makes you look like an out-of-touch anti-authoritarian teenager. Look: I really believe that you can get around the TSA and that it isn't a police state. This is not the Holocaust. This is not the end of the world. It's just an inconvenience you have to pay to get a $200 round-the-world flight.
  - anu_gupta 13y ago
    Genuinely hope you get hellbanned for this. If the HN moderators apply the same standards to you as they do to everyone else you should be.
    - jessaustin 13y ago
      What, because of the cursing? [EDIT: which has now been edited out; too bad, I always appreciate a sincere "Fuck you!"] Let's not be censorious. I can think of some hellbanned who didn't obviously deserve it, but most of the ones I've seen did obviously deserve it. Are you seriously going to argue that jrockway is as bad as the guy who posts all his personal revelations from the Lord? [EDIT: I'm talking about the richly-deserving-of-his-hellban "losethos": that guy's ramblings are always worth a drag of the trackball.] And like jrockway said, he is somehow on the leader board. That probably ought to mean something.
      - mindcrime 13y ago
        I'm not going to jump on the "hellban jrockway" bandwagon, but I will say that I don't see any reason that being on the leaderboard should net anyone special treatment. The "board" shows history... what you did in the past doesn't change the effect or merit of your current behavior. By analogy - should someone automatically be pardoned for a crime they commit today (let's go extreme and say murder), because they had displayed good behavior in the past? All of this said, I am a bit surprised by some of jrockway's comments in this thread, given his posting history. Almost enough to wonder if someone else has taken control of his account.
      - anu_gupta 13y ago
        The fact that he's on the leaderboard means precisely nothing except to indicate he's on the leaderboard. Plenty of other people have been banned for saying "Fuck you" on here, and it's interesting that jrockway silently edited his comment to remove his swearing at someone else on here, as well as removing his invitation to check that he's a huge karma accumulator - which he seems to think actually means something. Anyway, I"m not a mod, just someone who's a bit tired of one set of people being treated differently.
amirmc 13y ago
And when the TSA is at all bus stations and gates access to roads? Do you walk? Logic like this means you essentially hide from the problem until there's nowhere left. What happens then?
- jrockway 13y ago
  Doesn't this mean we shouldn't have any laws, because one day the laws could be used to imprison everyone and use their internal organs to produce email spam? The point is, I think we still have travel alternatives and legal protections from abuse. The federal government only has the authority to affect travel between states, not within a single state. If the TSA starts interfering with movement in a single state (like on the NYC subway system), we'll see pushback from the state and local governments.
  - Amadou 13y ago
    If the TSA starts interfering with movement in a single state (like on the NYC subway system), we'll see pushback from the state and local governments. Nope, in fact NYC welcomed the Terrorists' Surrogate Army invasion of the subway. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Juvdi2TdeXY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Juvdi2TdeXY
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
  - dragonwriter 13y ago
    > If the TSA starts interfering with movement in a single state You mean, if the TSA starts screening (and, thus, assuming the power to reject) passengers for intrastate air travel, like they have been since day one of TSA operations?
jacalata 13y ago
You must be from Hawaii.
mason240 13y ago
Instead of forcing others to waste their time and money to suit your irrational need for a security theatre, why don't spend your own time and money moving somewhere else with lots of security - like North Korea.
cenhyperion 13y ago
Have you driven near the border? Driving through west Texas I was met by stop and go traffic for 5 miles. Middle of the desert. I kept driving and realized border patrol had blocked the interstate and was diverting traffic through a checkpoint. Hundreds of cameras and drug dogs everywhere. I drove up and the agent asked me if I'm a US citizen. Then I was free to go. It's not that simple. It's very very hard to travel if the government doesn't want you to.
- blahedo 13y ago
  > had blocked the interstate There's a permanent roadblock across northbound lanes of interstates in New Mexico (and, I think, Arizona), and across many of the smaller roads in southern Arizona (and, presumably, New Mexico). > if I'm a US citizen. Then I was free to go. It also helps to be white, fwiw.
- acdha 13y ago
  Try driving from San Diego to Los Angeles: there are permanent checkpoints a solid hour's drive from the border — and quite a few non-white residents complain about getting unpleasant levels of attention.
sspiff 13y ago
There's a poem that describes this behaviour: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came…
projectramo 13y ago
Across the country for a 7 day event? Seems extreme.
mpyne 13y ago
While I agree with the idea that there needs to be some type of security screening for aircraft, I don't think it necessarily follows that we should tell people to either accept episodes like this one or take alternate transportation. With AQAP's bomb-making experts (who can make bombs with no metal parts whatsoever now) I can see why they need to make super-duper sure that a hit for explosive material is absolutely a false positive. But that doesn't explain the rude treatment, the confiscation of gear, the refusal to provide water, or having 5 different government agencies (and JetBlue) all gang up on him. There has to be a more "public serving" way to handle the necessary task of public safety.

pessimizer 13y ago

I haven't flown since shortly after you had to take off your shoes to get through security, taking Amtrak instead, and I've only ever even seen two people searched by TSA. You barely even see them, and if you do, they're usually sitting around looking bored. I suspect that they only bother to do the random searches if they've gotten some specific alert or warning. Many, many trips between Chicago and SF, Portland, and Texas, or rather, California Zephyr, Empire Builder, Texas Eagle, and Spirit of New Orleans etc. Haven't had any need to go through Bloombergville, though so ymmv.

mikeash 13y ago
They're rare... for now. The trend is solidly up, though.
ripter 13y ago
I have a few friends/coworkers that almost always get searched. They all share some things in common, like their skin color.
model-m 13y ago
A terrorist would have to put a single bomb on a single train to drastically change things. The TSA would then step in and do all the heavy lifting for them, creating terror and removing freedom.

aet 13y ago

Yes, I suppose to some extent. Is the thought of getting blown up terrifying? Is there some trade-off at work here? Where is the line?

keithnoizu 13y ago

Yes, I have the bad luck of not being white also. I've gone through secondary screening a few times although luckily never anything like this and I've never setup the bomb alarms. The double clinch is that we're all paying a lot of money to keep this program going that just slows us down during our travels with out actually increasing security in any meaningful way. It's just a secret form of welfare as far as I'm compared. Making up busy work for a bunch of people to do to make people feel more secure, falsely, and boost employment numbers.