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> I've a friend who spent a good deal of time recently in Khazakhstan, and she was very amused by my attempts to express my fears of the United States becoming
by jwr 13y ago
> I've a friend who spent a good deal of time recently in Khazakhstan, and she was very amused by my attempts to express my fears of the United States becoming an authoritarian police state. She laughed and said that no, I did not understand what it was to have secret police following you about and all these other sorts of issues.
And she is right — the US is nowhere near being an authoritarian police state. But it is on a slippery slope, and those of us who have experienced a police state and can detect certain symptoms are deeply worried.
What's even more worrying is that this quiet (it is quiet, Hacker News represents at a first approximation 0% of the voting population) change takes place in a country which is the #1 military, financial and political world power.
- joering2 13y ago> "She laughed and said that no, I did not understand what it was to have secret police following you about... " It is too expensive and inefficient to follow everyone personally. You can instead shoot a satellite in the space that each second takes high-definition infrared photos of Earth and can pinpoint/track/identify each person by their uniquely located veins/blood packets on their shoulders. See? Khazakhstan v. 2.0. http://www.foxnews.com/science/2012/09/13/secret-us-spy-satellite-launches-into-space-after-6-week-delay/ http://www.foxnews.com/science/2012/09/13/secret-us-spy-sate...
- hollerith 13y agoThe URL does not support any of the assertions in your comment.
- namenotrequired 13y agoIt is also from fox'news'...
- drivebyacct2 13y agoPretty sure it was merely an example of how mass surveillance is easier than individual surveillance. In fact, being a super-set, if they're good enough at it, it's nearly guaranteed to be more effective.
- beedogs 13y agoFYI, drivebyacct2: you've been hellbanned for some reason as well. I looked through your comment history and have no idea why. Just thought you might want to know, as it looks like it happened 2 months ago.
- makerops 13y agoI saw some random headline today, that said something along the lines of "The US is in that awkward position, where we can't fix things within the system anymore, and yet aren't far enough along to start hanging the bastards"
- timbuktwelve 13y agoThis is a fantastic quote...made me laugh and then sigh.
- wangarific 13y agoand then cry
- foobarbazqux 13y ago...and laugh about it all again. (It's almost a line from So Long Marianne by Leonard Cohen.)
- rquantz 13y agoI would love it if you could find this article.
- yourapostasy 13y agoThat paraphrases Claire Wolfe's quote: "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." – 101 Things to Do 'Til the Revolution (1996) She is a well-known libertarian writer, though she seems to have unplugged in the past few years. She has a Wikipedia article for more details. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claire_Wolfe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claire_Wolfe
- meapix 13y agoThank you. I read few lines on that book, I'll buy it.
- 13y ago
- SmokyBorbon 13y agoNo. All of the legal precedents and infrastructure are there for a police state. It's not a slippery slope. It's a cliff. It will only take a single event like another 9/11 to push us off. Overnight this country will turn into the worst totalitarian nightmare the world has ever seen.
- belorn 13y agoIf the US is nowhere near being an authoritarian police state, at what point will US become a authoritarian police state? When they have kill lists without any trial, jury or judge? When they keep prisoners in jail indefinitely without a trial? When they torture prisoners? When state officials lie to the public? When state officials lie to public representatives? When the secret police interfere with lawyers communications and interferes with legal cases? When the secret police silence individuals that want to inform about abuse? When the secret police use surveillance for blackmailing? When the state use strip searches and surveillance indiscriminately against the population, including children? When the state implement state censorship? When they use force against peaceful demonstrators? When they utilize military resources against peaceful demonstrators? When they seize bank assets without any trial, any intention of a trial, or even without ever formally serving the individual with criminal papers? Please state what criteria we should use, so we can have a final definition of what an authoritarian police state is.
- foobarbazqux 13y agoAll of those criteria, plus I think an extra criterion that they have to happen to so many people that it reaches some kind of tipping point where there's a mass consensus that things are authoritarian. Just to be clear, I'm not excusing the abuses you've listed.
- nohuck13 13y agoThe thing about rule law is that it's not about critical mass. It's the edge cases that are important. It's easy to have justice the majority of the time. If the state can arbitrarily subvert the rules just because they think it's really really important, that's not rule of law. I know you're not arguing that it is, you're more talking about public opinion. I think you're probably right. But I wish that weren't the reality.
- foobarbazqux 13y agoWell, perhaps we can see things on a line from perfect rule of law to perfect authoritarianism, with the understanding that no state is ever completely at one end or the other. I think we're still less than half way to authoritarianism.
- ferdo 13y ago> the US is nowhere near being an authoritarian police state. The US has the highest incarceration rate on the planet and perhaps in history. I'd say we're there.
- homosaur 13y agoWhen people who are in the majority, politically or ethnically, say they aren't in a police state it's usually because they aren't yet being targeted.
- beedogs 13y agoReplying here because I can't reply to SmokyBorbon directly: your account appears to be hellbanned.
- aspensmonster 13y agoMod rule strikes again.
- Daniel_Newby 13y agoThere is no slippery slope to authoritarianism. The US might become a police state, but it will not be authoritarian.
- pietro 13y agoI'm not sure I'm following you. How is a democratic police state not de facto authoritarian?
- Daniel_Newby 13y agoMob rule is not authoritarian.
- madaxe 13y agoI had the Kazakh "special police" tail then detain me. Plain clothes. We mocked them relentlessly then went on our way. Secret police in kaz aren't very secret, and I feel far more intruded upon and am more careful about what I say in the US than there.