6 ms·

This all depends on how you define "dream". If it's a picket fence, yard, pool, 2,5 kids, etc, that's not gonna fly in the Bay. But if the dream is to live in

This all depends on how you define "dream". If it's a picket fence, yard, pool, 2,5 kids, etc, that's not gonna fly in the Bay. But if the dream is to live in a nice place with easy access to a fantastic city, that's achievable anywhere in the Bay Area (Oakland has it's moments of greatness, Berkley has it's chartms, and SF is SF). My take is that the East Bay is about to start growing like crazy.

toomuchtodo 13y ago
A "nice place" is not a 1 bedroom for $3K/month. You can't live comfortably in SF proper on less than $120K-150K/year.
- selectodude 13y ago
  There's no reason for this, either. San Francisco has to relax their brain-dead backlash toward high density construction. Los Angeles, too. Is it a California thing in general?
  - JimboOmega 13y ago
    Well... it kind of is. This article (now dated, from 2007) shows the cost of the "right to build" in various US cities. 4 of the top 5 are in California: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2007/11/a-tale-of-two-town-houses/306334/ http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2007/11/a-tale-o...
  - geebee 13y ago
    Feel free to be cynical in your answer, but why would a property owner who just paid a fortune to buy a single family house in SF want to rezone the neighborhood to see a large apartment complex built next door? Now that they've paid the heavy toll, they stand to lose the most.
    - lolwutf 13y ago
      It's a vicious cycle. Some behavior has to break it.
- combusean 13y ago
  That is completely overshooting it. Rent in a safe area starts at $2k a month. At the 2.5% rule, that's 80k of income to qualify. If you network and land in a rent controlled apartment (a friend of a friend has the 4th floor of a mansion in the haight for $900/month) you can do it for even less.
  - lolwutf 13y ago
    Maybe more. A 1-bedroom in a building next door to the Mission Hotel - San Francisco's biggest SRO hotel, located in the Mission District - just went for $2800/mo. And the building isn't rent controlled.
    - combusean 13y ago
      For trendy neighborhoods like the Mission, yeah $2800 or more is the norm. I was talking about places like Sunset or Ingleside--not highly desirable, but not Hunters Point or the Bayview.
hyperbovine 13y ago
It's already happening in the East Bay, and it's weird. A two-on-a-lot just went up on across the street from me, not 50 feet from where we had an 5-way shootout in broad daylight two years ago. I couldn't believe my eyes when they got snapped up for $750k a piece; I pay $500/month in rent. Just in the last week somebody started parking their new Porsche in front of my house, on a street where I still wouldn't feel comfortable leaving my old 1997 Civic overnight. Various brewpubs, taprooms, etc. have started opening up. This feels exactly like how people describe living in the Mission circa fifteen years ago.
- lpolovets 13y ago
  Just wondering: what part of the East Bay do you live in?
- mercutio2 13y ago
  Holy cow, I think I may be your neighbor; I bought one of those houses, judging from the brand new Porsche I've been seeing when I head to work in the morning. Do you have a link to the shoot out? Except my half of the Berkeley two-on-a-lot cost substantially more than $750k...
  - hyperbovine 13y ago
    http://www.berkeleyside.com/2012/03/07/dec-23-shooting-involved-five-men-with-guns/ http://www.berkeleyside.com/2012/03/07/dec-23-shooting-invol... Welcome to the neighborhood! :)
tzs 13y ago
> This all depends on how you define "dream". If it's a picket fence, yard, pool, 2,5 kids, etc, that's not gonna fly in the Bay It might fly if you fly. :-) I don't know if this is still true, but when I lived in Silicon Valley a little over 20 years ago, I did some price comparisons, and it worked out that for the cost of a nice SV house, you could buy a much bigger house and pool in the Merced area in the Central Valley, and a Mooney M20 (private plane with a cruise speed of over 250 mph), hanger space for the plane in Merced and Palo Alto, and a car to keep in Palo Alto. You could even get the house on enough land with room from a runway, to save having to drive to the Merced airport every day. Get a couple other people to move to Merced and share the commute to split operating costs of the Mooney, and it looked like this would actually be quite viable.
- jaggederest 13y ago
  Up here in Portland, one of my friends just got his private pilot's license - he lives in Bend, and can commute if he so desires. It's expensive, but probably reasonable.
- bennyg 13y ago
  That just sounds like so much fun. You make me want to get a pilot's license.
  - steven777400 13y ago
    As a pilot who flies for fun, I totally recommend it.

toomuchtodo 13y ago

A "nice place" is not a 1 bedroom for $3K/month. You can't live comfortably in SF proper on less than $120K-150K/year.

selectodude 13y ago
There's no reason for this, either. San Francisco has to relax their brain-dead backlash toward high density construction. Los Angeles, too. Is it a California thing in general?
- JimboOmega 13y ago
  Well... it kind of is. This article (now dated, from 2007) shows the cost of the "right to build" in various US cities. 4 of the top 5 are in California: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2007/11/a-tale-of-two-town-houses/306334/ http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2007/11/a-tale-o...
- geebee 13y ago
  Feel free to be cynical in your answer, but why would a property owner who just paid a fortune to buy a single family house in SF want to rezone the neighborhood to see a large apartment complex built next door? Now that they've paid the heavy toll, they stand to lose the most.
  - lolwutf 13y ago
    It's a vicious cycle. Some behavior has to break it.
combusean 13y ago
That is completely overshooting it. Rent in a safe area starts at $2k a month. At the 2.5% rule, that's 80k of income to qualify. If you network and land in a rent controlled apartment (a friend of a friend has the 4th floor of a mansion in the haight for $900/month) you can do it for even less.
- lolwutf 13y ago
  Maybe more. A 1-bedroom in a building next door to the Mission Hotel - San Francisco's biggest SRO hotel, located in the Mission District - just went for $2800/mo. And the building isn't rent controlled.
  - combusean 13y ago
    For trendy neighborhoods like the Mission, yeah $2800 or more is the norm. I was talking about places like Sunset or Ingleside--not highly desirable, but not Hunters Point or the Bayview.

hyperbovine 13y ago

It's already happening in the East Bay, and it's weird. A two-on-a-lot just went up on across the street from me, not 50 feet from where we had an 5-way shootout in broad daylight two years ago. I couldn't believe my eyes when they got snapped up for $750k a piece; I pay $500/month in rent. Just in the last week somebody started parking their new Porsche in front of my house, on a street where I still wouldn't feel comfortable leaving my old 1997 Civic overnight. Various brewpubs, taprooms, etc. have started opening up. This feels exactly like how people describe living in the Mission circa fifteen years ago.

lpolovets 13y ago
Just wondering: what part of the East Bay do you live in?
mercutio2 13y ago
Holy cow, I think I may be your neighbor; I bought one of those houses, judging from the brand new Porsche I've been seeing when I head to work in the morning. Do you have a link to the shoot out? Except my half of the Berkeley two-on-a-lot cost substantially more than $750k...
- hyperbovine 13y ago
  http://www.berkeleyside.com/2012/03/07/dec-23-shooting-involved-five-men-with-guns/ http://www.berkeleyside.com/2012/03/07/dec-23-shooting-invol... Welcome to the neighborhood! :)

tzs 13y ago

> This all depends on how you define "dream". If it's a picket fence, yard, pool, 2,5 kids, etc, that's not gonna fly in the Bay It might fly if you fly. :-) I don't know if this is still true, but when I lived in Silicon Valley a little over 20 years ago, I did some price comparisons, and it worked out that for the cost of a nice SV house, you could buy a much bigger house and pool in the Merced area in the Central Valley, and a Mooney M20 (private plane with a cruise speed of over 250 mph), hanger space for the plane in Merced and Palo Alto, and a car to keep in Palo Alto. You could even get the house on enough land with room from a runway, to save having to drive to the Merced airport every day. Get a couple other people to move to Merced and share the commute to split operating costs of the Mooney, and it looked like this would actually be quite viable.

jaggederest 13y ago
Up here in Portland, one of my friends just got his private pilot's license - he lives in Bend, and can commute if he so desires. It's expensive, but probably reasonable.
bennyg 13y ago
That just sounds like so much fun. You make me want to get a pilot's license.
- steven777400 13y ago
  As a pilot who flies for fun, I totally recommend it.