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If you have a house, then it's your responsibility to have doors with locks and windows which are closed. You cannot have a house in a public space accessible

If you have a house, then it's your responsibility to have doors with locks and windows which are closed. You cannot have a house in a public space accessible worldwide, without doors or windows, and then randomly get to decide who can and can't visit, and have it enforced by courts.

bmelton 13y ago
If you have property, and the house is on that property, then yes, you can. If I build my house in the public commons, on property that I do not own or lease, then I haven't any property rights as a homefront, and the relationship is more akin to one of a storefront than a home. If we're extrapolating from commercial property rights, then again, stores and merchants have the right to refuse entry to persons they choose as well, even though those buildings are in common areas, and their doors are commonly unlocked to allow free entry to all. Further, it is not incumbent upon you to have doors, windows and locks to prevent entry from your property, as the property needn't be a house at all, but could simply be land. I have the right to expel trespassers from land I own, whether or not any dwellings or structures exist upon such property. Even if you're assertion is just that I should have doors and locks to prevent them entering just my home, that is again a false claim. Whether or not my property is secure might be a matter of insurance liability, but does not obviate me from the expectation that others will respect my property rights. Even if I have no doors, windows, locks, or even walls, I have the right to expel others from my property.
DannyBee 13y ago
"If you have a house, then it's your responsibility to have doors with locks and windows which are closed." Legally, it isn't. "You cannot have a house in a public space accessible worldwide, without doors or windows, and then randomly get to decide who can and can't visit, and have it enforced by courts. " Completely and totally false. Trespass to land, in fact, doesn't even require that you intend to trespass, only that you voluntarily traveled to the location. You do not need to know it's someone else's property or that you are trespassing to be liable. Getting injunctive relief is more difficult for other reasons, but you would at least get nominal damages. I think you will find trespass to land doctrines are not in your favor in this argument. You may want to try to argue it isn't like land at all :)
anigbrowl 13y ago
No. Even if I leave my door wide open and piles of glittering jewels on the floor, that doesn't give you the right to walk in and help yourself. Likewise, if I walk down the street in a fancy suit, you don't have the right to mug me, and I don't have the obligation to arm myself against your attacks. It might be prudent to do so, but there's no obligation. In this case, Craigslist's C&D letter gave 3taps abundant warning of what not to do, and what consequences might ensue. We had this discussion here on HN some days back when the ruling came down. Just because something is possible doesn't give you the right to do it.
vehementi 13y ago
Haha so if you forget to lock your doors I get to just take all your shit because it was your responsibility to lock them up and I gotcha? No

bmelton 13y ago

If you have property, and the house is on that property, then yes, you can. If I build my house in the public commons, on property that I do not own or lease, then I haven't any property rights as a homefront, and the relationship is more akin to one of a storefront than a home. If we're extrapolating from commercial property rights, then again, stores and merchants have the right to refuse entry to persons they choose as well, even though those buildings are in common areas, and their doors are commonly unlocked to allow free entry to all. Further, it is not incumbent upon you to have doors, windows and locks to prevent entry from your property, as the property needn't be a house at all, but could simply be land. I have the right to expel trespassers from land I own, whether or not any dwellings or structures exist upon such property. Even if you're assertion is just that I should have doors and locks to prevent them entering just my home, that is again a false claim. Whether or not my property is secure might be a matter of insurance liability, but does not obviate me from the expectation that others will respect my property rights. Even if I have no doors, windows, locks, or even walls, I have the right to expel others from my property.

DannyBee 13y ago

"If you have a house, then it's your responsibility to have doors with locks and windows which are closed." Legally, it isn't. "You cannot have a house in a public space accessible worldwide, without doors or windows, and then randomly get to decide who can and can't visit, and have it enforced by courts. " Completely and totally false. Trespass to land, in fact, doesn't even require that you intend to trespass, only that you voluntarily traveled to the location. You do not need to know it's someone else's property or that you are trespassing to be liable. Getting injunctive relief is more difficult for other reasons, but you would at least get nominal damages. I think you will find trespass to land doctrines are not in your favor in this argument. You may want to try to argue it isn't like land at all :)

anigbrowl 13y ago

No. Even if I leave my door wide open and piles of glittering jewels on the floor, that doesn't give you the right to walk in and help yourself. Likewise, if I walk down the street in a fancy suit, you don't have the right to mug me, and I don't have the obligation to arm myself against your attacks. It might be prudent to do so, but there's no obligation. In this case, Craigslist's C&D letter gave 3taps abundant warning of what not to do, and what consequences might ensue. We had this discussion here on HN some days back when the ruling came down. Just because something is possible doesn't give you the right to do it.

vehementi 13y ago

Haha so if you forget to lock your doors I get to just take all your shit because it was your responsibility to lock them up and I gotcha? No